Is Jean Grey Really Ororo's Best Friend?

[Desmark]

storm doesnt know how Jean feels. does she know she has racist tendencies? does ororo know that Jean was the reason forge put of engaging to her? does she know Jean didnt give a rats arse that she left the team? of course ororo would see her in a favorable manner because she doesnt know what we know about jean: that she is two faced.

What do you mean she doesn't know? She has already received a resounding slap to the face by her alleged master(in the illusion) in the panel you yourself posted and yet doesn't hold it against her due to the mind manipulating aspect.

[Grey]

it may not fit for whatever reason but these stories are canon:

https://www.comicsbeat.com/the-marve...-house-of-x-3/


Jones: I have to agree with you. I was pleasantly surprised to see a relatively focused, 80-plus page one-shot. When the series wasn’t focused around the main plot, it took the time to flesh out important characters and moments in Marvel history.


we have to stop making excuses for Jean when its evident she had shady feelings as it relates to ororo.

Let’s say you’re right. Why hasn’t storm been able to pick up on such a shady character after being best friends for so long?

[Grey]

I belong to the "Phoenix was Jean" camp. So I won't use the "Dark Phoenix took her place" card... But when Jean came back rom the dead, she wasn't Phoenix anymore, and had no memory of those years.



Jean turned into the Black Queen, then was saved by the X-Men, then she turned immediately in Dark Phoenix. To be saved again by Xavier. Being immediately abudcted by Shiar's to destroy her. Jean fought and killed herself. I don't mean that it doesn't leave time for an apology for Ororo. But it's also understandable, that she kind of died before she had real time with Ororo to apologize. When she came back from the dead, she wasn't Phoenix anymore and had no memory of this. She gained the phoenix years memory later. I know that things that didn't happen in pages don't officially exist. But do you think it's impossible that Jean apologized to Ororo off panel ? Do you really think that a character built like Jean, never ever felt really bad about this ?

Friendship, real friendship is not mistake proof. And I think Ororo never hated Jean for what she did. She was too upset that Jean died. It was a part of the beauty of this tragedy. Ororo mourned Jean for years. So yes, Jean wasn't the perfect friend for Ororo, but yet, it's seems - in the book - that Ororo doesn't feel that way. At least, she never reproached those things to Jean. As I said in a earlier post, Ororo seems to be the bigger person here. She has the maturity to understand mistakes, and to forgive, when she knows that the mistakes were done by someone whose heart was in a good place.

Exactly

Which is what makes their friendship so much more believable and authentic.

I don’t know about OP. But I have gone through some very tense times with my best friend, questioned them and their morality and opinions at times. But that depth is what makes us so close.

[Grey]

Some people will go through every type of mental gymnastics to unburden a white woman of her racism. Its true in real life and its true in comics.

The issue is, for the sake of Argument some of us have said “ok,
Maybe jean had racist thoughts at the time of the DPS”, yet that doesn’t disqualify the two from being best friends. People grow, change- friendships endure dark times.

It’s like two separate things are being talked about in this thread.

[butterflykyss]

What do you mean she doesn't know? She has already received a resounding slap to the face by her alleged master(in the illusion) in the panel you yourself posted and yet doesn't hold it against her due to the mind manipulating aspect.

I'm most certain ororo attributed that to the Phoenix and not Jean herself or even to mastermind, as some have tried to shift responsibility towards.

[franckd]

She's supposed to be but I never bought her as such. Their friendship came out of nowhere, they barely even had any interaction before the Phoenix happened and suddenly they're as close as sisters?

In that scene, that takes place before the Phoenix Saga, Ororo fights a Jean Robot. But Ororo is real. And what does she say ?

confidences.jpg

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Was it ever confirmed he physically abused her? Or do you mean because of the psychic manipulation?

The psychic manipulation was bad enough. See: Jessica Jones and the Purple Man.

[franckd]

I don't see how Jean is anyone's friend. She's never around and when she appears the scenes need to be about HER and HER ONLY! There is no room for friends in the panels.

When a character is dead for 14 years, yes, I think writers want, at first, to focus a bit on her.

But Jean knows what friendship is :

JeanFriendship.jpg

And Jean is the kind of warm comforting friend :

Attachment 89266

Attachment 89267

And Jean is seen, by many fans, like the heart of the X-Men...

[franckd]

Remember when Mystique had a nightmare about Lady Grey cutting her throat ? Jean Grey was dead at the time. It was not a nightmare actually, it was all Mastermind toying with Mystique. This was HIS fantasy of what Jean Grey should be.

mastermind vs mystique.jpg

[People Of The Earth]

The latest issue of Marvel 1001 inspired this thought and I think I can conclude that Jean really isn't her friend. A few things have occurred throughout their relationship that helped me come to this conclusion.

1. In the Classic Xmen story, Jean exerted her privilege when judging Ororo about not needing to wear clothing. They later would go on a girls night out on the town and Jean committed the ultimate sin and violated Ororo by reading her mind without her permission:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/storm...riend-2049096/



Ororo eventually forgave Jean as she came up with some lame excuse about not being able to control her powers but that wouldnt be the last time Jean would wrong her.

During the Dark Phoenix saga, Jean's ultimate desires were being fulfilled via Mastermind. One of those fantasies was reliving the colonial period in which she viewed Ororo as a slave and treated her accordingly:



I think this was probably the worst thing she could have done to Ororo and for me it sealed the deal on this question for me.

Nevertheless, it was recently revealed that during a period after Jean returned from the death of Phoenix Ororo left the xmen for a brief period and Jean didnt care about her emotions, why she left and even acknowledged she was a jerk but was glad to see her leave:



Lastly, Jean helped push Forge to ultimately end up breaking off his engagement to Ororo. This was one of the happiest moments of Ororo's life yet Jean in her instigation ruined that moment for her:

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/up...g internet.jpg

This resulted in him lashing out on Ororo and breaking off the engagement, which she was going to say yes to:


https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/up...g internet.jpg

These things Jean has done Ororo never even knew. How can Jean truly be her friend when she harbors such thoughts against ororo ? So I don't think that Jean is a friend or at the very least hasnt been a good friend to Ororo. What are your thoughts?

That's a lot of effort put into trolling another character and fanbase… Ridiculous.

[JasmineW]

I am quite sick of people women against each other for no reason.

[tuck frump]

I'm most certain ororo attributed that to the Phoenix and not Jean herself or even to mastermind, as some have tried to shift responsibility towards.

Theres also the fact there wasnt much time to think on this for Ororo before Jean died and stayed dead for years. Things were a little tense between XMen and XFactor when they first met in XFactor but the racial aspect was put aside.

But maybe it shouldnt have been. Years later, during Eve of Destruction, Jean formed a team to rescue the XMen from Magneto. She scraps the litteral bottom of the barrel to find people who will willingly follow her in battle bht when thats not enough, she has the interesting idea of taking over mutant mind (which has been referred in this thread as a form of rape) and forcing her to fight for her (enslaving her in effect). And her choice of target is.... inch resting:



Forcing one's will on an unsuspecting victim is treated as extremely immoral in the XMen narrative. Jean knows that better then anyone but apparently these rules don't apply when it comes to black women. And how can Jean justify being Ororo's friend when, after the previous incident of her treating Storm as a slave, she's doing the same thing to another black woman here, while being completely sound of mind. Notice her smug response to Magneto when confronted. What a sociopath.

[People Of The Earth]

It's funny, when Frost was doing this to that russian ambassador back in HoX, you were shrugging that off as inconsequential and "who cares? that's a flatscan anyway"...
But now, it's akin to"rape", the act of a sociopath as you put it.
So which is it tuck frump? You seem to have a very hypocritical perspective on this topic. Or are you just into it like the OP, for the sake of trolling Jean Grey and her fans?

[tuck frump]

It's funny, when Frost was doing this to that russian ambassador back in HoX, you were shrugging that off as inconsequential and "who cares? that's a flatscan anyway"...
But now, it's akin to"rape", the act of a sociopath as you put it.
So which is it tuck frump? You seem to have a very hypocritical perspective on this topic. Or are you just into it like the OP, for the sake of trolling Jean Grey and her fans?

You said it yourself, russian ambassador is a flatscan so she's irrelevant in the story and doesnt represent any real person or group that is relevant or inspire sympathy. Discarded.

[Wiccan]

Racist Emma Frost!