View Poll Results: Is Jean Really Ororo's Best Friend?

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  • Yes

    85 73.28%
  • No

    31 26.72%
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  1. #436
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    They didn't want to break them up so Morrison did something worse.
    My opinions are my own

  2. #437
    Spectacular Member franckd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    Phoenix Resurrection used the Phoenix to bring Jean back to life as did Phoenix Endsong. Well last time we saw Jean she died as the Phoenix in Morrison's run so in-story , yes Morrison left Jean with a vehicle to return. I don't know how any way I can make my position more clear.

    While Seagle and Kelly did give Jean the imagery of the Phoenix back and so did Claremont in revolution it was Morrison that brought back the Phoenix force.
    Exactly.

    Seagle and Kelly/CC's Revolution run : Jean was exploring her own potential, the phoenix powers had limitations, but were hers. I LOVED that. But the fact is with no Phoenix Force, she would not be able to come from the dead if she died at the time.

    Morrison run : The Phoenix powers were both Jean's and the Phoenix force. On earth, she was Jean with phoenix powers, channeling the Phoenix Force. If she comes too close of the force, it replaces her. When she died in the sun, she came back. She had to bring Wolverine on earth. When she died, killed by Xorn, she went in an other plane of reality, she was goddess powerful, and had to save the future resetting the universe. She stayed dead because she had Goddess Phoenix work to do. She should have been allowed to return after this work was done.

    You can prefer on take than the other, but it's not the same.

  3. #438
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franckd View Post
    I adore Morrison's run. But his Jean death wasn't iconic, or heroic. Even the way she died was kind of... bad. Morrison left Marvel, to never come back, after many disagreements with the editors (one of them, was he wasn't allowed to use flashbacks). And when he left, many things he had created was retconed, ignored, or forgotten. So I don't see how the fact he may have been still contracted with Marvel after he left, would change anything. Editors do only what they want to do.
    We don't know what happened behind the scenes, many htings from his run just conitnued. I guess they made some deal, I even remember people saying that fraction affirmed that Jean owuld have to be dead for at least 8 years.
    Carey saying that Morrison killing Jean was what seal the deal that she should be kept dead.
    Maybe is nothing but I have evidence enough to think it is not only quesada call

    Who said "cold" ?
    In HCT, Jean was not cold. She was emotional, and cried when she decided to save the universe again...

    I said you can't compare and say you weren't impress by Morrison's take, just because Seagle & Kelly did before. As what they did was absolutely not what Morrison did.
    Morrison wasn't th eonly one trying to get Phoenix on Jean, and we don't know where kelly seagle were going.

    Morrison's Jean was aloof and distant, maybe cold not proper

    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    Phoenix Resurrection used the Phoenix to bring Jean back to life as did Phoenix Endsong. Well last time we saw Jean she died as the Phoenix in Morrison's run so in-story , yes Morrison left Jean with a vehicle to return. I don't know how any way I can make my position more clear.

    While Seagle and Kelly did give Jean the imagery of the Phoenix back and so did Claremont in revolution it was Morrison that brought back the Phoenix force.
    Phoenix endsong wasn't even written by Morrison
    Last edited by spirit2011; 11-16-2019 at 10:55 AM.
    Zethrimon unblock me

  4. #439
    Incredible Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    We don't know what happened behind the scenes, many htings from his run just conitnued. I guess they made some deal, I even remember people saying that fraction affirmed that Jean owuld have to be dead for at least 8 years.
    Carey saying that Morrison killing Jean was what seal the deal that she should be kept dead.
    Maybe is nothing but I have evidence enough to think it is not only quesada call



    Morrison wasn't th eonly one trying to get Phoenix on Jean, and we don't know where kelly seagle were going.

    Morrison's Jean was aloof and distant, maybe cold not proper



    Phoenix endsong wasn't even written by Morrison
    We all know Morrison didn't write Phoenix Endsong. The point was that though Morrison killed Jean, he built inside the story for a way for her to be reborn - which is the Phoenix. And it was used in two subsequent stories in which Jean was returned to life - Phoenix Endsong and Phoenix Resurrection. Using the Phoenix any writer if allowed could have brought her back. It wasn't Morrison's fault they waited so long to do so.

    Also, weeks ago in the Jean thread I recounted all the times Jean shown compassion, emotion, and empathy in Morrison's run so this idea she was cold, aloof or whatever just doesn't work. Some of you say this because you felt she was these things to Scott, because some put this over importance on her relationship to Cyclops. Jean as a character should always be more than Scott's appendage. Scott and Jean did have some issues, but the run was so much more than that but some of you cannot see it because you are so ticked that the relationship was broken.

    If you recall during this era Quesada was "dead is dead" though they broke the rules for other characters. Quesada also said he was against divorce being shown in comics (I think he grew up with divorced parents). They didn't want to divorce Scott/Jean so they killed her so Scott could be with Emma Frost. Now that in my opinion is a perfect example of misogyny in comics - the woman character has to die so her husband can move on with another woman.

  5. #440
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Question 1:If you could resurrect any one X-character, who would it be?"
    "MC -- Mister M. Hed get me out of a plot hole in a little story Im writing
    No, Id like Jean to be alive again but I wouldnt want to resurrect her, Id want to go back in time and talk Grant out of killing her."

    "Question 2:-Mr. Carey is there any chance that Phoenix (Jean Grey) may return and could you tell us if you would like to write the character?
    MC -- Id love to write her, yeah, but I think any resurrection for Jean would have to be handled with spectacular amounts of caution. Shes almost a character that you CANT resurrect now."

    I found the interviews excepts
    Zethrimon unblock me

  6. #441
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialbodies View Post
    Um, how is this NOT considered blasphemy amongst fans of Storm?
    how is it blasphemy?
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  7. #442
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    We all know Morrison didn't write Phoenix Endsong. The point was that though Morrison killed Jean, he built inside the story for a way for her to be reborn - which is the Phoenix. And it was used in two subsequent stories in which Jean was returned to life - Phoenix Endsong and Phoenix Resurrection. Using the Phoenix any writer if allowed could have brought her back. It wasn't Morrison's fault they waited so long to do so.

    Also, weeks ago in the Jean thread I recounted all the times Jean shown compassion, emotion, and empathy in Morrison's run so this idea she was cold, aloof or whatever just doesn't work. Some of you say this because you felt she was these things to Scott, because some put this over importance on her relationship to Cyclops. Jean as a character should always be more than Scott's appendage. Scott and Jean did have some issues, but the run was so much more than that but some of you cannot see it because you are so ticked that the relationship was broken.

    If you recall during this era Quesada was "dead is dead" though they broke the rules for other characters. Quesada also said he was against divorce being shown in comics (I think he grew up with divorced parents). They didn't want to divorce Scott/Jean so they killed her so Scott could be with Emma Frost. Now that in my opinion is a perfect example of misogyny in comics - the woman character has to die so her husband can move on with another woman.
    I don't think Morrison created any out, Phoenix wasn't created by him. any writr could use phoenix to ressurrect Jean. And it was what happened, phoenix ressurrection is completely removed from Endsong and Morrison's take on phoenix.
    Create the solution for a problem you created is rarely a feature.

    You gave some examples, some more valid that others. But i didn't felt any passion on her, she wsa on automatic mode.
    i'm not Jott fan, but Scott was her husband. That is a important connection

    There wasn't law "dead is dead". Colossus got back in few issues into Whedon. Other x-men also got back. Even Buck got back

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    They didn't want to break them up so Morrison did something worse.
    He just passed a train on Jean
    Zethrimon unblock me

  8. #443
    Incredible Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I don't think Morrison created any out, Phoenix wasn't created by him. any writr could use phoenix to ressurrect Jean. And it was what happened, phoenix ressurrection is completely removed from Endsong and Morrison's take on phoenix.
    Create the solution for a problem you created is rarely a feature.

    You gave some examples, some more valid that others. But i didn't felt any passion on her, she wsa on automatic mode.
    i'm not Jott fan, but Scott was her husband. That is a important connection

    There wasn't law "dead is dead". Colossus got back in few issues into Whedon. Other x-men also got back. Even Buck got back



    He just passed a train on Jean
    You have to be kidding me. Of course Morrison did not create the Phoenix but he merged Jean with the Phoenix again in his run which absolutely gave Jean a way to be returned to the books. Two issues before New X-men 150 Grant Morrison used the Phoenix to revive Jean when she saved herself and Logan from the sun. Jean died in New X-men 150 but in the very next story she is reborn from a phoenix egg. So spare me the protests, but Morrison def gave a vehicle and examples on how to revive her. It is right there in the story and they were used in the next two Jean stories : Endsong and Resurrection.

  9. #444
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    You have to be kidding me. Of course Morrison did not create the Phoenix but he merged Jean with the Phoenix again in his run which absolutely gave Jean a way to be returned to the books. Two issues before New X-men 150 Grant Morrison used the Phoenix to revive Jean when she saved herself and Logan from the sun. Jean died in New X-men 150 but in the very next story she is reborn from a phoenix egg. So spare me the protests, but Morrison def gave a vehicle and examples on how to revive her. It is right there in the story and they were used in the next two Jean stories : Endsong and Resurrection.
    Exactly this. Morrison gave every possible route the next writer could undo his work with very little collateral damage. Them not doing it is on Quesada.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  10. #445
    Incredible Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Question 1:If you could resurrect any one X-character, who would it be?"
    "MC -- Mister M. Hed get me out of a plot hole in a little story Im writing
    No, Id like Jean to be alive again but I wouldnt want to resurrect her, Id want to go back in time and talk Grant out of killing her."

    "Question 2:-Mr. Carey is there any chance that Phoenix (Jean Grey) may return and could you tell us if you would like to write the character?
    MC -- Id love to write her, yeah, but I think any resurrection for Jean would have to be handled with spectacular amounts of caution. Shes almost a character that you CANT resurrect now."

    I found the interviews excepts
    Thank you!

    I recalled him saying the "almost a character that you can't resurrect now" I am pretty sure that was after Endsong? I could be wrong but I thought it was. I never fully understood why he said that.

    I do recall once Quesada in an interview compared Jean to Kenny (of South Park) perhaps they thought after Endsong it would be overkill to resurrect her again.

  11. #446
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    Thank you!

    I recalled him saying the "almost a character that you can't resurrect now" I am pretty sure that was after Endsong? I could be wrong but I thought it was. I never fully understood why he said that.

    I do recall once Quesada in an interview compared Jean to Kenny (of South Park) perhaps they thought after Endsong it would be overkill to resurrect her again.
    Endsong was suppossed to be a Jean Grey mini draw and co-written by Ethan Van Sciver.

    I think is pretty obvious that endsong was a way to get away with Jean and they had no plans to get her back
    Zethrimon unblock me

  12. #447
    Spectacular Member franckd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    You have to be kidding me. Of course Morrison did not create the Phoenix but he merged Jean with the Phoenix again in his run which absolutely gave Jean a way to be returned to the books. Two issues before New X-men 150 Grant Morrison used the Phoenix to revive Jean when she saved herself and Logan from the sun. Jean died in New X-men 150 but in the very next story she is reborn from a phoenix egg. So spare me the protests, but Morrison def gave a vehicle and examples on how to revive her. It is right there in the story and they were used in the next two Jean stories : Endsong and Resurrection.
    I think he really is deaf talking so far. It's very nice from you to keep answering to him.
    I'm not english or american, but I got everything you said, from the Phoenix Endsong comment, to the Morrison comment. Yet, some fans here pretend to not understand.

  13. #448
    Spectacular Member JasmineW's Avatar
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    The starter of this thread is a huge Storm fan and created this to bash Jean. In an ironic twist, the thread has become all about Jean and Storm has not been mentioned in pages...

  14. #449
    Fantastic Member Ser Pounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasmineW View Post
    The starter of this thread is a huge Storm fan and created this to bash Jean. In an ironic twist, the thread has become all about Jean and Storm has not been mentioned in pages...
    It’s okay. Storm will have her true love and best friend Yukio back soon!

  15. #450
    Spectacular Member franckd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasmineW View Post
    The starter of this thread is a huge Storm fan and created this to bash Jean. In an ironic twist, the thread has become all about Jean and Storm has not been mentioned in pages...
    Instant Karma ?

    That's why I prefer to be fair. As much as I can be.

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