Is Jean Grey Really Ororo's Best Friend?

[Wiccan]

I love how people always go back to problematic stories from 30 years ago. Comics change people, the writers back then got away with a lot of unfortunate things because people didn't push back on them the way they do today.

Everyone has an absolute right to push back on Marauders colorists for making Storm look almost white. This is a valid criticism on a book that is happening right now today!

Going back into Chris Claremont's twisted fantasies about women, all I can say is for all of his appearances of progressiveness with female characters and people of color, there was an underlying sexual BDSM aspect to a lot of it, and there were even racist tropes in there too, and in some ways I sometimes wonder if Claremont was a bit more misogynist then people acknowledge. Black Queen Jean was racist with Ororo because that is how Claremont envisioned Jean's dark side. Another writer would do it entirely differently than that based on Jean's history as a character. Emma Frost, I don't even think she was racist, she was an equal opportunity villain who would mind control any target to get her way. If anything I think she was attracted to Storm, or at the very least thought Storm was beautiful so she picked her to be the one who she took over to infiltrate the X-Men at the time.

Lets go to the current modern run, or even back to the 90's.
In the 90's, Jean and Ororo were close friends and they acted like they were, and they have been ever since.
In the 90's, Emma Frost was co-headmistress with Sean and the ran a school with a very diverse class of teenagers. They were also really supportive of their class. I think the only people Emma is prejudiced against is humans, but even there she makes exceptions for people who are being oppressed, like when she convinced Scott to let those human refugees come to Utopia.

In the current run, Jean and Ororo are friends.
In the current run, as much as Emma and Ororo aren't talking right now, Emma still respects Ororo so much that she wanted Ororo to be her first pick to take the Red Queen position and be a partner in the financial day to day operations of the Hellfire Trading Company! Personally, I think Emma wants to get Ororo back as a friend and I wouldn't be surprised if this comes up in Marauders at some point.

We also know that Emma and Jean are going to team up to rescue Ororo in the Giant Size in February. Why, because they both care about Ororo and want to help her! Heck, this is the reason that Emma and Jean are going to set aside their differences for a bit, because they are worried about Ororo and choose to work together to save her.

I made an edit, "refugees come to Utopia"

Just to be clear I was being ironic when I said Emma was racist. I just thought it was ridiculous how tuck frump posted Jean mindcontrolling Frenzy as a supposed racist moment, so I posted some random example of Emma abusing Storm.

[RachelGrey]

Just to be clear I was being ironic when I said Emma was racist. I just thought it was ridiculous how tuck frump posted Jean mindcontrolling Frenzy as a supposed racist moment, so I posted some random example of Emma abusing Storm.

Yeah, I always took it that Emma thought Storm was the most attractive of the X-Men, and she picked Storm to switch minds with because Emma is a bit vain and she wanted to look beautiful when she infiltrated the X-Men.

[spirit2011]

Yeah, I always took it that Emma thought Storm was the most attractive of the X-Men, and she picked Storm to switch minds with because Emma is a bit vain and she wanted to look beautiful when she infiltrated the X-Men.

She could had stopped there, instead she went and use Ororo body for sex

[phoenixzero23]

I'm not an Emma fan but it is important to know that this particular incident was from a different time where Emma was a villain, the writer was making her do something horrible it is true, that was bad but I don't think it had something to do with race, maybe Emma just wanted a pretty body. Again it is very bad but I don't think it was for Emma being racist. As far as I can tell Storm and Emma aren't friends, Storm doesn't like Emma but they respect each other.

[RachelGrey]

She could had stopped there, instead she went and use Ororo body for sex

OMG Spirit, sometimes you drive me nuts. It was over 30 years ago and back then Emma was a stereotype villain with no backstory. She just ended up being popular enough that they kept using her ongoing in the comics so they flushed her story out and eventually had her turn into a hero.

Jean has mind controlled just as many people as Emma has, and I don't call Jean evil or anything. It's a comic book, there is some unfortunate morality in all of the "heroes". Heck being a vigilante is actually illegal, so every single member of the X-Men, Avengers, Fantastic Four, Champions, and every other frigging group could be put in jail for being vigilantes.

Also, several members of X-Force would go to jail for outright murder.

Jean would go to jail for physically assaulting Emma after the affair. Because guess what Spirit, having an affair with someone isn't illegal, but physically assaulting someone for revenge is most definitely illegal.

You play semantics all the time where you want to pick on one specific character, well unfortunately for you I can pick any X-character and find a reason why they should technically be in jail!

[spirit2011]

I'm not an Emma fan but it is important to know that this particular incident was from a different time where Emma was a villain, the writer was making her do something horrible it is true, that was bad but I don't think it had something to do with race, maybe Emma just wanted a pretty body. Again it is very bad but I don't think it was for Emma being racist. As far as I can tell Storm and Emma aren't friends, Storm doesn't like Emma but they respect each other.

I also don't think it has to do with race. Emma just doesn't like women

[Havok83]

I'm not an Emma fan but it is important to know that this particular incident was from a different time where Emma was a villain, the writer was making her do something horrible it is true, that was bad but I don't think it had something to do with race, maybe Emma just wanted a pretty body. Again it is very bad but I don't think it was for Emma being racist. As far as I can tell Storm and Emma aren't friends, Storm doesn't like Emma but they respect each other.

I dont think current Storm even has any respect for Emma. She made it clear in Maraurders that she doesnt even wont to deal with her. She hung up the phone when Emma tried to pitch her on being Red King/Queen. I can just imagine all the eye rolls she slings Emma's way at the council

[RachelGrey]

I also don't think it has to do with race. Emma just doesn't like women

Emma likes women, she is just competitive with some women. Some women she doesn't feel the need to be competitive with like teen Jean, Kate, and Illyana. I don't even think she tries to compete with Storm and Emma thinks pretty highly of Storm. Emma respects and a little bit fears Jean, and is competitive with Jean.

[RachelGrey]

I dont think current Storm even has any respect for Emma. She made it clear in Maraurders that she doesnt even wont to deal with her. She hung up the phone when Emma tried to pitch her on being Red King/Queen. I can just imagine all the eye rolls she slings Emma's way at the council

Yeah, but I do think Emma wants to repair the friendship with Storm somehow, so we shall see what happens in the upcoming stories.

[spirit2011]

OMG Spirit, sometimes you drive me nuts. It was over 30 years ago and back then Emma was a stereotype villain with no backstory. She just ended up being popular enough that they kept using her ongoing in the comics so they flushed her story out and eventually had her turn into a hero.

Jean has mind controlled just as many people as Emma has, and I don't call Jean evil or anything. It's a comic book, there is some unfortunate morality in all of the "heroes". Heck being a vigilante is actually illegal, so every single member of the X-Men, Avengers, Fantastic Four, Champions, and every other frigging group could be put in jail for being vigilantes.

Also, several members of X-Force would go to jail for outright murder.

Jean would go to jail for physically assaulting Emma after the affair. Because guess what Spirit, having an affair with someone isn't illegal, but physically assaulting someone for revenge is most definitely illegal.

You play semantics all the time where you want to pick on one specific character, well unfortunately for you I can pick any X-character and find a reason why they should technically be in jail!

Just because it happened 30 years ago doesn't mean it is less bad.

What about Emma going for jail for sexual assault for lying to patient about the therapy? happy now?

I dont think current Storm even has any respect for Emma. She made it clear in Maraurders that she doesnt even wont to deal with her. She hung up the phone when Emma tried to pitch her on being Red King/Queen. I can just imagine all the eye rolls she slings Emma's way at the council

Jean asks Ororo is she is having a seizure... I hope it stays this way, some crimes shouldn't be forgiven

[phoenixzero23]

I dont think current Storm even has any respect for Emma. She made it clear in Maraurders that she doesnt even wont to deal with her. She hung up the phone when Emma tried to pitch her on being Red King/Queen. I can just imagine all the eye rolls she slings Emma's way at the council

I think it is like Cyclops and Wolverine. They don't like each other but they know the other has good quailities and is not a monster, they just don't like each other.

[RachelGrey]

Just because it happened 30 years ago doesn't mean it is less bad.

What about Emma going for jail for sexual assault for lying to patient about the therapy? happy now?



Jean asks Ororo is she is having a seizure... I hope it stays this way, some crimes shouldn't be forgiven

I am done with you!

[People Of The Earth]

Did you actually have anything of value to say?

I spoke my piece earlier about the trollish nature of this thread, but I do appreciate the irony of you saying those words.

[spirit2011]

I am done with you!

I was trying to be nice


That is why I can't get a BF

[tuck frump]

Jean viewing Ororo as a houseslave in her fantasy is very much a racial issue and the fact it was published in 1980 doesnt diminish that fact in any way.