Is Jean Grey Really Ororo's Best Friend?

[jwatson]

Some people will go through every type of mental gymnastics to unburden a white woman of her racism. Its true in real life and its true in comics.

more of a jerk reaction post so edited.

[terrancejameson]

Some people will go through every type of mental gymnastics to unburden a white woman of her racism. Its true in real life and its true in comics.

Lolololol where da lie at?

[JB]

let's be clear. I'm nor ignoring the good things. I understand they have a great friendship but not one based around honesty. when did Jean tell ororo I apologize for holding racist thoughts against ororo? when did Jean apologize for her part in forge breaking off with ororo? when did Jean say I shouldn't have made you feel inadequate for not being adjusted to the norms of America? ororo does love Jean I dont deny that and I know Jean loves her but it doesnt mean Jean has been the best friend she should or could have been towards Ororo.

So in all honesty, what was your intention behind the thread/poll? It seems to me, and perhaps a few others, that it was intended to further divide. As you said yourself, Ororo loves Jean and Jean loves Ororo. It's, to me, one of the most beautiful relationships we get to read. Please help me understand why we can't have nice things!

[franckd]

So in all honesty, what was your intention behind the thread/poll? It seems to me, and perhaps a few others, that it was intended to further divide. As you said yourself, Ororo loves Jean and Jean loves Ororo. It's, to me, one of the most beautiful relationships we get to read. Please help me understand why we can't have nice things!

There was also, earlier today, a thread called "Is Jean Grey more relevant to the franchise when she's dead?"... I don' know where the topic is now (it has disappeared)
That was a bit much. And really biased.

[tuck frump]

So in all honesty, what was your intention behind the thread/poll? It seems to me, and perhaps a few others, that it was intended to further divide. As you said yourself, Ororo loves Jean and Jean loves Ororo. It's, to me, one of the most beautiful relationships we get to read. Please help me understand why we can't have nice things!

This is a message board. Further divide what?

There was also, earlier today, a thread called "Is Jean Grey more relevant to the franchise when she's dead?"... I don' know where the topic is now (it has disappeared)
That was a bit much. And really biased.

Multiple writers and editors in the past have spoke of Jean being more important in death. Its a valid point of discussion. And the thread was nuked because people complained. Which is starting to become a trend lately and some posters should really now better then to enable this kind of attitude where one whiny faction of the forum gets to decide what can and cant be discussed.

[butterflykyss]

I can't believe I wrote straight white heterosexual lol Ahem, I have no excuse except poor proofreading on my part hehe.. I even thought later "wait, did I use both straight and heterosexual"?? The struggle remains.

lololol no worries boo!!! I actually didnt catch it until you mentioned it! but despite this your post was 100% accurate.

Some people will go through every type of mental gymnastics to unburden a white woman of her racism. Its true in real life and its true in comics.

baby you are doing a lot of preaching today!!!

[franckd]

Multiple writers and editors in the past have spoke of Jean being more important in death. Its a valid point of discussion. And the thread was nuked because people complained. Which is starting to become a trend lately and some posters should really now better then to enable this kind of attitude where one whiny faction of the forum gets to decide what can and cant be discussed.

Well, the fan who created the thread had a long post history of Jean bashing in his profile. I mean, almost all of his messages, in any threads, were against Jean. If the thread was a valid point, I don't think it was genuinely created for debate. But to fuel some obsessive grudge against a fictional character.

PS : I have checked. The original poster of the deleted thread has been banned.

Anyway, to be back on topic, I really think that love, like friendship, is not "all rational". Like parents love their kids very much, even when they do mistakes. I think Ororo's love for Jean is real, and Jean loves Ororo too. I'm happy that many writers got it right. And I regret that they don't spend more time together. But hey, no drama no panel time I suppose.

[butterflykyss]

Well, the fan who created the thread had a long post history of Jean bashing in his profile. I mean, almost all of his messages, in any threads, were against Jean. If the thread was a valid point, I don't think it was genuinely created for debate. But to fuel some obsessive grudge against a fictional character.

PS : I have checked. The original poster of the deleted thread has been banned.

Anyway, to be back on topic, I really think that love, like friendship, is not "all rational". Like parents love their kids very much, even when they do mistakes. I think Ororo's love for Jean is real, and Jean loves Ororo too. I'm happy that many writers got it right. And I regret that they don't spend more time together. But hey, no drama no panel time I suppose.

I asked this question that no one else answered but do you think Jean should apologize for the past things that she did or at least have an open conversation about them?

[terrancejameson]

The original X-men are a bunch of WASPs. Xavier called Storm deluded. Jean is like any other white person in a white supremacist society who has unconscious racial biases and there's no doubt Storm would call her and the rest of the X-men out if these stories were written by anyone other than a white man. I have no doubt Jean would do the work of checking herself (unlike some other X-men), but it's a story we won't ever see.

What's with this obsession over Jean's problematic history? All of the X-men have one. Is it just her turn now and next week will be all the perpetrators of "surprise kissing"/sexual harassment (aka most of the X-men)?

I have no idea how I managed to miss this gem, but holy hell. Let’s go one further. You ever think about how Xavier, Jean and Emma have all used their white privileged and assumed superiority to manipulate Ororo as the “naive little savage.” Xavier either lied or was grossly misinformed about her power and heritage. He then inserted himself into her life as the great white savior and convinced her to discontinue her own good works.

Jean Grey has shamed Ororo into conforming to her social standards multiple times. Ororo is not a telepath. She has no way of knowing Jean’s thoughts. Jean has intruded on Ororo’s tho. Then managed to shame Ororo for feeling violated. And now fans are suggesting that Ororo is the naive little savage that’s too uncivilized to know when Jean is belittling her? Lol I cannot.

Then there’s Emma Frost who has shown nothing but jealousy and contempt for Ororo over the years. She stole her body and allowed Sebastian Shaw to have his way with it and thought nothing of it. That only after mentally torturing her for who knows how long. She taunted and provoked her about her marriage whenever she could. And she made a complete fool of Storm after she went against her better judgement to trust Emma.

But Storm is meant to forgive and never question the subtle micro aggressions these three have leveled against her. It trips me out sometimes.

[Havok83]

I asked this question that no one else answered but do you think Jean should apologize for the past things that she did or at least have an open conversation about them?

She had her mind mentally messed with. Im not sure what she needs to apologize for when her agency wasnt exactly there. By this logic, Storm should apologize for trying to kill Jean in X-men Red, which we never saw her do on panel

[franckd]

I asked this question that no one else answered but do you think Jean should apologize for the past things that she did or at least have an open conversation about them?

Sure, Jean should apologize, and sincerely, for any mistakes she makes. She's not perfect (and I love that she's not)

When I do a mistake, I do apologize. And I mean it. That's the only way to grow up I think.
Being right for being right when you're wrong, is - imo - quite egocentric. You waste time, because you don't want to take responsibility. So you can't be a better person, and elevate.

[tuck frump]

I asked this question that no one else answered but do you think Jean should apologize for the past things that she did or at least have an open conversation about them?

No Storm should apologize for making Jean be racist against her.

[jwatson]

Sure, Jean should apologize, and sincerely, for any mistakes she makes. She's not perfect (and I love that she's not)

When I do a mistake, I do apologize. And I mean it. That's the only way to grow up I think.
Being right for being right when you're wrong, is - imo - quite egocentric. You waste time, because you don't want to take responsibility. So you can't be a better person, and elevate.

No because it wasn't jean. Just because you feel it was Jean doesn't mean others do, which they have clearly stated.

[JB]

This is a message board. Further divide what?

A message board where if you disagree with someone, you can be accused of going "through every type of mental gymnastics to unburden a white woman of her racism". That's a massive assumption about people you likely don't know just because they have a differing opinion. That's why I asked the OP what their intention was, rather than assuming.

[franckd]

No Storm should apologize for making Jean be racist against her.

I think it's more is Frump logic, than Jean logic.

I guess, all the characters who made mistakes should have regrets, and yes, should apologize. But with all the mistakes made by the team members, if we had to go back to 56 years of X history, we'd need a book just for that matter.