Cynics shouldn’t be Writing Superman.

[mikelmcknight72]

In my opinion this cynical age in which we live calls for more of the idealistic heroes who do what is right no matter what, and never make moral compromises. Similarly, we need a bit less of the cynical take. So, I agree in large part with the OP. Optimistic, non-deconstructive takes on characters like Superman and Captain Marvel (never calling him Shazam) are what this age needs. We need heroes who give us more light and optimism, and a bit less of the deconstructive, cynical, "hero" vs "hero" takes, in which there is much less difference between heroes and villains than there should be. I do, however, think that "child like wonder" is not the most accurate way to describe characters like Superman and Captain Marvel. The better way to describe them would be characters I would actually want to see as fictional icons worthy of taking lessons from. Lessons like....

Another person doing wrong never justifies YOU doing wrong.
The ends do not justify the means.
Two wrongs never make a right.
Might in the service of right is absolutely the right way to go.
Always treat others the way you want to be treated.
Be kind, be honest.
Its easy to be kind and respectful of those with whom you agree. It is harder and more reflective of the quality of your character to do so for those with whom you do not agree. It is also more important.
Try to be the best you can be, and better than you were yesterday.

[lotchj]

In my opinion this cynical age in which we live calls for more of the idealistic heroes who do what is right no matter what, and never make moral compromises. Similarly, we need a bit less of the cynical take. So, I agree in large part with the OP. Optimistic, non-deconstructive takes on characters like Superman and Captain Marvel (never calling him Shazam) are what this age needs. We need heroes who give us more light and optimism, and a bit less of the deconstructive, cynical, "hero" vs "hero" takes, in which there is much less difference between heroes and villains than there should be. I do, however, think that "child like wonder" is not the most accurate way to describe characters like Superman and Captain Marvel. The better way to describe them would be characters I would actually want to see as fictional icons worthy of taking lessons from. Lessons like....

Another person doing wrong never justifies YOU doing wrong.
The ends do not justify the means.
Two wrongs never make a right.
Might in the service of right is absolutely the right way to go.
Always treat others the way you want to be treated.
Be kind, be honest.
Its easy to be kind and respectful of those with whom you agree. It is harder and more reflective of the quality of your character to do so for those with whom you do not agree. It is also more important.
Try to be the best you can be, and better than you were yesterday.

Well said!!

[SpideyCeo]

In my opinion this cynical age in which we live calls for more of the idealistic heroes who do what is right no matter what, and never make moral compromises. Similarly, we need a bit less of the cynical take. So, I agree in large part with the OP. Optimistic, non-deconstructive takes on characters like Superman and Captain Marvel (never calling him Shazam) are what this age needs. We need heroes who give us more light and optimism, and a bit less of the deconstructive, cynical, "hero" vs "hero" takes, in which there is much less difference between heroes and villains than there should be. I do, however, think that "child like wonder" is not the most accurate way to describe characters like Superman and Captain Marvel. The better way to describe them would be characters I would actually want to see as fictional icons worthy of taking lessons from. Lessons like....

Another person doing wrong never justifies YOU doing wrong.
The ends do not justify the means.
Two wrongs never make a right.
Might in the service of right is absolutely the right way to go.
Always treat others the way you want to be treated.
Be kind, be honest.
Its easy to be kind and respectful of those with whom you agree. It is harder and more reflective of the quality of your character to do so for those with whom you do not agree. It is also more important.
Try to be the best you can be, and better than you were yesterday.

That can apply to any hero. It's just most people lik a little realistic edginess and sense of audacity in this message. Like ironman or goku.

[The_Lurk]

Depends on the cynic. I'd rather say people that neither get nor wish to get Superman should write him*. Take Garth Ennis for example. Not sure if he would describe himself as a cynic but his characters and stories sure are cynical, dark and twisted. But he gets and respects the big blue. I could envision him writing a good Superman story. Probably even a controversial one, but still one that would do him justice.

*edit
or any other DC character; be it comics or, looking at the most recent disaster, movies.

[Agent Z]

This is too much of a blanket statement to be applied properly, especially when a lot of Superman fans have an inaccurate idea of cynicism actually means.

[manwhohaseverything]

Here is quick run down for anyone who is interested.

[Soubhagya]

This seems to be quite a limiting idea. If the writer has legit talent, why exclude him or her? Its possible that the writer may be cynical but has enough imagination and intelligence to write a character who is optimistic. Its not like to write Hannibal Lecter you have to be a sociopath. You have to do your research and bring your own creativity. '

I can think of a few examples of modern writers. Tom King is a great talent. I don't know his worldview but lot of his work comes across as pretty dark. But from upto what i have read till now, 'Up in The Sky!' is pretty good. You have your dark stuff in there. Like death of young kids. But Superman is as good as it gets. To save one girl he goes on this cosmic odyssey. You have this bloody boxing match where he keeps getting up even after being beaten to a pulp. You have this race against Flash where even though its pretty clear who is the fastest he wins by a whisker by sheer willpower. You have this inspirational moment when a doctor lays down his life to save Superman. When you get to Superman's mind it does bring out the best in you. You have a Morrison like scene where Superman does the impossible when trying to decode a signal to track the girl using his brain. I haven't finished it yet. But Up in The Sky is quite a unique book. Its filled with dark moments but light of Superman shines through.

You have Frank Miller's Year One. I have read the first two issues. And in my opinion both were below average, especially the first one which was almost unreadable. But the character of Superman himself wasn't half bad. He looked after his group of outlier friends who were bullied. Most of the issue maybe bad but i wouldn't mind that idea in Superman's origin. Superman looks after the weak. He refused to kill anyone in the army (though i don't know why he wanted to join army in the first place). While i don't like the story itself, the character Superman himself was decent.

I don't read Mark Millar. From what i have heard most of the criticisms levelled against his work is of being dark and edgy. He is like the poster child of edgy modern comic book writers. But his run on Superman Adventures is one of the best runs on the character in the last few decades. Its like when he is writing Superman he becomes a different writer.

So, i can't say i agree with this idea. Though theoretically speaking it should be easier for a writer to write a character who shares his or her own worldview.

[jackolover]

Superman writers just aren't willing to crack down when writers for other characters try and push the Man of Steel around. As long as he continues to behave like a whipped dog he'll continue to flounder. Supergirl, Batman, Green Arrow whoever if they take a shot a Superman then the Superman writers have to be willing to take a shot back maybe two. Somehow, someway modern writers have conflated nice with weak; it is a very American thing where bad attitudes and rude behavior are seen as essential to getting respect. Batman has wildly popularized this mindset and Superman has in his own way played the part of helping by being Bruce's occasional whipping boy with the current Batman/Superman comic being an example of this.

Japanese writers never seem to make this conflation, look at Luffy. Good-natured guy, but no one has ever considered him weak.

Firstly, Superman is many things to many people, so one POV of Superman is difficult.

To me Superman was an alien, who got a positive POV about Planet Earth from his parents. (Superman could have ended up a Dictator when he became an adult, and took over the world. I’d have liked a What If? about that). Continuing, to me, Superman is this happy-go-lucky kid in a play box of complicated human behaviours, and he looks on it all as amusing, sometimes sad, to be immersed in their little drama’s. Superman can be divorced from all of this crazy that goes on in DC verse, but, he chooses to be in it. In the Daily Bugle, the source of all poison news, and false news. He chooses this. It’s like living in volcano magma boiling you alive, yet, he keeps up a humor and an amusement with human interaction, and, he marries one of them, and starts a family himself.

This is a guy who should be separate from the trivial human condition, because he is so far above it as to not need to get involved. Yet, he has a fascination with all of humanity’s complexities, and, I must say, he must love what humanity is doing, and how it’s doing it.

This light side of the human condition Clark Kent enjoys? It’s a joy to be Superman. Cynicism? I don’t see it coming into his character, at this point. If it does? Then Supermans mental health being in question will be a big problem, if he ever gets in that state. (I think Spider-Man only ever got in a dark place once, around the time of the fake parents and clone saga, but he was a small-time power set compared to what Superman could get up to).

[manwhohaseverything]

Firstly, Superman is many things to many people, so one POV of Superman is difficult.

To me Superman was an alien, who got a positive POV about Planet Earth from his parents. (Superman could have ended up a Dictator when he became an adult, and took over the world. I’d have liked a What If? about that). Continuing, to me, Superman is this happy-go-lucky kid in a play box of complicated human behaviours, and he looks on it all as amusing, sometimes sad, to be immersed in their little drama’s. Superman can be divorced from all of this crazy that goes on in DC verse, but, he chooses to be in it. In the Daily Bugle, the source of all poison news, and false news. He chooses this. It’s like living in volcano magma boiling you alive, yet, he keeps up a humor and an amusement with human interaction, and, he marries one of them, and starts a family himself.

This is a guy who should be separate from the trivial human condition, because he is so far above it as to not need to get involved. Yet, he has a fascination with all of humanity’s complexities, and, I must say, he must love what humanity is doing, and how it’s doing it.

This light side of the human condition Clark Kent enjoys? It’s a joy to be Superman. Cynicism? I don’t see it coming into his character, at this point. If it does? Then Supermans mental health being in question will be a big problem, if he ever gets in that state. (I think Spider-Man only ever got in a dark place once, around the time of the fake parents and clone saga, but he was a small-time power set compared to what Superman could get up to).

Just so you know, being cynical isn't equivalent to having mental health problems or going into dark places.

[Sutekh]

I don't think there's a whole type of people who shouldn't write a character, but defensive writing for Superman is one of my least favorite things. If a depiction boils down to "nuh uh he's cool see?!" I see it as an uphill battle. There are people who won't like him, but don't worry about that.

Yes. I was most annoyed by 'take that' writing of Aquaman, with on the page references to internet memes about 'talks to fish' or whatever. I do not read about Aquaman to read about how the rest of the world thinks he's 'lame' and needs to be corrected. Screw that. I'm not those people. I'm already reading the darn book! I don't need to be told he's not lame.

I also don't need to be told that Captain America isn't boring old vanilla (a bit naive at times, a bit out of touch on occasion), or the Superman isn't a big blue boy scout (hopeful and idealistic), or whatever. I already like them *because* of those traits. Making Superman brooding or angry or alienated or removed does absolutely nothing for me, because I already have Batman and Wolverine and the Punisher and various other characters to scratch that itch. Not every character needs to service every taste.

Superman (and Captain Marvel, and Wonder Woman, and the best iterations of the Legion of Super-Heroes) are big bright-eyed hopeful idealists, and, IMO, should stay that way. (Wonder Woman is the most schizophenic about this. She's the ambassador of peace to man's world, who will win the fight with love and truth and uses just a lasso as a weapon! No, she's a badass warrior Xena-chick who will totally pragmatically stab a fool who underestimates her and carries a sword! Gah.)

Anyone who doesn't like that can go read about characters that aren't. It's not like comics aren't already giving them plenty of Batverine.

[Agent Z]

Yes. I was most annoyed by 'take that' writing of Aquaman, with on the page references to internet memes about 'talks to fish' or whatever. I do not read about Aquaman to read about how the rest of the world thinks he's 'lame' and needs to be corrected. Screw that. I'm not those people. I'm already reading the darn book! I don't need to be told he's not lame.

I also don't need to be told that Captain America isn't boring old vanilla (a bit naive at times, a bit out of touch on occasion), or the Superman isn't a big blue boy scout (hopeful and idealistic), or whatever. I already like them *because* of those traits. Making Superman brooding or angry or alienated or removed does absolutely nothing for me, because I already have Batman and Wolverine and the Punisher and various other characters to scratch that itch. Not every character needs to service every taste.

Superman (and Captain Marvel, and Wonder Woman, and the best iterations of the Legion of Super-Heroes) are big bright-eyed hopeful idealists, and, IMO, should stay that way. (Wonder Woman is the most schizophenic about this. She's the ambassador of peace to man's world, who will win the fight with love and truth and uses just a lasso as a weapon! No, she's a badass warrior Xena-chick who will totally pragmatically stab a fool who underestimates her and carries a sword! Gah.)

Anyone who doesn't like that can go read about characters that aren't. It's not like comics aren't already giving them plenty of Batverine.

Not that schizophrenic. Most of the time she's killed it's as a last resort and not something she enjoys doing. The excessively violent take is mostly Elseworlds and it was started by Mark Waid who supposedly isn't a cynic. Even those takes on Wonder Woman aren't really like Xena.