The Mandalorian

[godisawesome]

I loved the first two seasons. But I'm not too hyped about the new one. Getting rid of Gina because of her politics was disgusting. And The Book Of Boba Fett was awful and sabotaged all of what we went though with Mando. To just throw Grogu back to him and toss all of the finale's meaning. Never mind the fact that Djarin had learned that his life isn't the place to carry along a kid everywhere and Jedi training is what he needs. It just reeks of corporate mandated regression because Grogu sells merch and is a guaranteed appeal to normies, despite the fact that Mando himself can still carry a series and Grogu could easily drop in every so often.

I'm kind of glad they got rid of Gina - the character wasn't worth the hassle of her making a jackass of herself, and its not like her particular acting skills were especially necessary to the role. The character was strictly functional, and can easily be replaced by any one of a dozen other characters and thousands of better actors... none of whom need to be petty little hatemongers.

I think Grogu's back more because of how complicated, weird, and techy the situation is with Luke. The digital reconstruction is its own thing, but put that aside, and you're stuck with the conundrum of Luke's Jedi Order and LFL's often stubborn refusal to just make the inevitable adjustments to implicit film canon.

Luke is "supposed" to end up with no graduating Jedi from his school, and only Leia having mostly complete her training, all so TLJ's pretentious story of Luke as a failure can be safe and Ben Solo can be treated as Luke's main student. And in spite of that, there's no way LFL is stupid enough to let Ben Solo murder Grogu. So Grogu can't graduate as a Jedi from Luke's academy, has to be gone by the time the Sequels start, and requires an expensive special effect to be trained by a Luke they still don't know how successful they should let him be...

...so he becomes a valuable asset that can't have Option A ("The Adventures of Luke Skywalker's Jedi Academy!"), and the initial Option B is just to have him hang around in limbo until they figure out what they can or can't do with Luke's Pretentiously Doomed Jedi Temple... and ultimately Grogu's just a cute puppet rather than a full-fledged character, so he's not going to drastically change any story he's a part of out of necessity

...So just put him back with Din after some cursory training, keep Din's story going the way they want, and continue to make money while waiting for LFL to inevitably realize that Luke should have some "Anti-TLJ" stories of being a successful-ish Jedi Master and teacher someday.

[ClassicalComics]

I'm kind of glad they got rid of Gina - the character wasn't worth the hassle of her making a jackass of herself, and its not like her particular acting skills were especially necessary to the role. The character was strictly functional, and can easily be replaced by any one of a dozen other characters and thousands of better actors... none of whom need to be petty little hatemongers.

She never made a jackass of herself and isn't a hate monger. She was defamed because she didn't walk lock in step with the Hollywood bubble. And Cara Dune was easily the best new female character to debut in live action Star Wars in the Disney era.

I think Grogu's back more because of how complicated, weird, and techy the situation is with Luke. The digital reconstruction is its own thing, but put that aside, and you're stuck with the conundrum of Luke's Jedi Order and LFL's often stubborn refusal to just make the inevitable adjustments to implicit film canon. Luke is "supposed" to end up with no graduating Jedi from his school, and only Leia having mostly complete her training, all so TLJ's pretentious story of Luke as a failure can be safe and Ben Solo can be treated as Luke's main student. And in spite of that, there's no way LFL is stupid enough to let Ben Solo murder Grogu. So Grogu can't graduate as a Jedi from Luke's academy, has to be gone by the time the Sequels start, and requires an expensive special effect to be trained by a Luke they still don't know how successful they should let him be... ...so he becomes a valuable asset that can't have Option A ("The Adventures of Luke Skywalker's Jedi Academy!"), and the initial Option B is just to have him hang around in limbo until they figure out what they can or can't do with Luke's Pretentiously Doomed Jedi Temple... and ultimately Grogu's just a cute puppet rather than a full-fledged character, so he's not going to drastically change any story he's a part of out of necessity ...So just put him back with Din after some cursory training, keep Din's story going the way they want, and continue to make money while waiting for LFL to inevitably realize that Luke should have some "Anti-TLJ" stories of being a successful-ish Jedi Master and teacher someday.

There really shouldn't be any effort to fit it in with the sequel trilogy, which needs to be retconned immediately. And if they don't would it to be gone completely, simply make it a different timeline.

[Ascended]

I think Grogu's back more because of how complicated, weird, and techy the situation is with Luke. The digital reconstruction is its own thing, but put that aside, and you're stuck with the conundrum of Luke's Jedi Order and LFL's often stubborn refusal to just make the inevitable adjustments to implicit film canon..

Nah, they were never going to separate those two. That's the whole hook; lone wolf and cub in space. Din might be able to carry the show without Grogu, but it wouldn't be nearly as successful. And even if a "Luke & Grogu" show were possible, you're switching the Mando trappings for Jedi ones, but you're not really getting anything there you don't already have. Other than Luke himself, anyway, who doesn't require Grogu at all.

Din and Grogu are a package deal and I doubt the plan was ever anything different? Mando, by and large, needs Grogu to remain a big deal but the Jedi sell themselves.

Now, what we *might* see is Grogu outlive the Mando show. With as much money as that green baby makes, I can easily see Disney using the character after the show has ended. By that point the de-aging technology will likely be cleaner and cheaper, and a "Luke and Grogu" show might be possible. Or maybe they'll use him in a post-sequels project. Who knows where Baby Yoda might end up after Mandalorian wraps its final season, but I won't be surprised at all if he's used beyond it.

[ZeroBG82]

I think Grogu's back more because of how complicated, weird, and techy the situation is with Luke.

You actually believe this? Because I can assure you there was no chance that separating Din and Grogu was ever going to be permanent. The relationship between them IS the show. It was always a question of HOW Grogu would rejoin Din, not IF he would. I'm not even surprised by how quickly it happened. He was always coming back, I figured early in S3. Though honestly this works better, as now we can get right back into the groove when S3 finally drops without needing to set this back up.

*Continues to be convinced that "The Mandalorian" of the title is actually Grogu all along*

[godisawesome]

Nah, they were never going to separate those two. That's the whole hook; lone wolf and cub in space. Din might be able to carry the show without Grogu, but it wouldn't be nearly as successful. And even if a "Luke & Grogu" show were possible, you're switching the Mando trappings for Jedi ones, but you're not really getting anything there you don't already have. Other than Luke himself, anyway, who doesn't require Grogu at all.

Din and Grogu are a package deal and I doubt the plan was ever anything different? Mando, by and large, needs Grogu to remain a big deal but the Jedi sell themselves.

You actually believe this? Because I can assure you there was no chance that separating Din and Grogu was ever going to be permanent. The relationship between them IS the show. It was always a question of HOW Grogu would rejoin Din, not IF he would. I'm not even surprised by how quickly it happened. He was always coming back, I figured early in S3. Though honestly this works better, as now we can get right back into the groove when S3 finally drops without needing to set this back up.

*Continues to be convinced that "The Mandalorian" of the title is actually Grogu all along*

While I definitely agree that a reunion was inevitable and that the characters exponentially increase each other's appeal, I *do* feel like the speed of the reunion tips the hand that right now, character assets are going to be more profitably used if they're associated with Mandalorians rather than post-ROTJ Jedi.

Din proved he didn't really "need" Grogu in "The Return of the Mandalorian - an entire episode without Grogu, and one that established a storyline Din could accomplish without Grogu at the center of it, still saw Din get arguably his best episodes, and he's actually had several great episodes where Grogu's been "quarantined" away from him by the plot. Meanwhile, while Grogu is a pop culture mascot that Din needed *earlier,* it's also obvious that his current form is limited enough he needs Din more, or at least someone occupying Din's role as the paternal figure...

...And that's where Post-ROTJ Luke has issues right now.

The closer we are to ROTJ, the more valuable Luke is - and yes, the more he and the Jedi "sell themselves."

But the closer we get to the miserable, self-centered coward of TLJ, the less people are interested in Luke or his doomed school of jobbers for Ben Solo, patron saint of toxic legacy characters.

Right now, if we're past ROTJ, the Mandalorians "sell themselves" better than the Jedi, because they don't have TLJ waiting in the wings to neuter them, and because the Mandos have kind of been quietly absorbing some of the interest and fascination pop-culture has with the Jedi, especially in an era with so few Jedi and with LFL having a rigidly dogmatic view of what the Jedi should be.

There's more people who want romantic, swashbuckling heroes with hope for the future than there are who like emotionally cold, monk-like heroes with doom in their future - and if Luke represented Jedi Knights with hope coming form him, Grogu probably would have had a longer stay with him. Instead, the "knights" of the story are with the Mandalorians, so Grogu doesn't benefit from being with the doomed Jedi right now.

Even Ahsoka is likely to get some differences between her and traditional Jedi further emphasized both to allow her to be more fun and to allow LFL to continue to approach the Jedi dogmatically rather than romantically.

[ClassicalComics]

Din proved he didn't really "need" Grogu in "The Return of the Mandalorian - an entire episode without Grogu, and one that established a storyline Din could accomplish without Grogu at the center of it, still saw Din get arguably his best episodes, and he's actually had several great episodes where Grogu's been "quarantined" away from him by the plot. Meanwhile, while Grogu is a pop culture mascot that Din needed *earlier,* it's also obvious that his current form is limited enough he needs Din more, or at least someone occupying Din's role as the paternal figure...

I agree. And there is the fact that putting them back together walks back the entire progression of their characters and the journey of the second season. Particularly the final scene that pretty much everyone loved.

[godisawesome]

I agree. And there is the fact that putting them back together walks back the entire progression of their characters and the journey of the second season. Particularly the final scene that pretty much everyone loved.

See, the thing is I don't think it actually walks back Din's progression in particular, with the walking back going to Grogu in the D+ shows and then arguably Luke. Din's progression was coming to accept he was Grogu's father and not just his guardian on his quest, and doing so even at the expense of his fundamental beliefs about being a Mandalorian. There isn't actually any arc of Din learning to let Grogu go in Season 2 - that lesson is Grogu's to learn, ostensibly, and what aspect of that which applies to Din only briefly appears in his one scene with Ahsoka in The Book of Boba Fett... and is quickly resolved with him accepting it. In fact, Din's quest was always with the idea of eventually leaving Grogu in better hands, and he never really struggled with that.

It's Grogu alone who has the "get past this attachment" arc put on him in Season 2, and generally always attached to LFL's reverence for the idea that they should continue to strictly define Jedi by the dogma Lucas introduced into the Prequels. From Season 1's showing of Grogu being *too* protective of his father when he started to choke Cara, to Ahsoka seeing Grogu playing catch with Din as a red flag, to Grogu's hesitance to go with Luke, there *was* a story of coming to accept separation from Din with Grogu...

...But that separation required dealing with Luke Skywalker and his eventually failed school, and LFL's tetchiness about critically evaluating TLJ's take on Luke as a failed instructor, as well as their desire to be dogmatic about the Jedi, so they wound up undoing all of Grogu's progress, and any potential idea that Luke would reform the Jedi intelligently, to avoid those confrontations.

But it's really only Grogu who's had his story rebooted. For Din? I'd argue it isn't even really a speed bump - his arc and lessons are still perfectly preserved and now being expanded on.

[ClassicalComics]

And that is where our conclusions differ. I think that the sequel trilogy should be discounted, as it made no sense and ruined the characters from the start.

[godisawesome]

And that is where our conclusions differ. I think that the sequel trilogy should be discounted, as it made no sense and ruined the characters from the start.

I actually think it should be discounted as well - I just don't think that LFL are ready to, because they've convinced themselves that TLJ was the central masterpiece of their film era.

Picture yourself sitting in a room with the guys who approved TLJ and trying to pitch Grogu's next story - about how far into "So Luke's going to train Grogu into a successful Jedi Knight, as fans expect him to" before someone else starts shifting uneasily in their chair?

I'm mostly joking... but not joking enough, if you get my meaning.

(I'm still half-convinced there's probably a few LFL members mildly disquieted by how much people liked Luke's appearance in Season 2, and then by how many were disappointed he was being a dogmatic Jedi classic in TBOBF.)

[Frontier]

I think they definitely could have played around with having the two be separated for longer than they did (and come up with a better excuse for Grogu to leave his training than Luke falling into the same mistakes of attachment that his predecessors did). I knew they would reunite but it felt like having more of a build up would've made it more impactful.

[ChrisIII]

Season 3 has now been confirmed for Feb 2023.

[godisawesome]

Season 3 has now been confirmed for Feb 2023.

Alongside reappearances by Bo-Katan, the Armorer… and I believe Dr. Pershing, if I spotted him accurately in the bootleg I caught of the trailer. All while Din makes it clear that finding the waters is going to be a priority, and probably early on in the season, if their habit of putting only first and second episode clips in the teasers holds.

Bo’s also got a sweet looking throneroom, which tells you something about her power and prestige even after the fall of Mandalore.

Still really, really hoping that Sabine shows up here as Female Authority Figure #3.

[Tofali]

Isn't that the same throne room where Maul was sitting when Ahsoka confronted him?

[godisawesome]

Isn't that the same throne room where Maul was sitting when Ahsoka confronted him?

I think it’s a bit too narrow and the arches are a bit too prevalent to be the same room… but if I’m wrong, that would still be a cool scene being teased there.

If it’s *not* the throne room on Sundari? Than we can see the kind of power and prestige Bo-Katan still wields, possibly from her family’s home planet of Kalevala.

If it *is* the Sundari throne-room? Then we’ve got Bo making a statement to Din right then and there, as well as possibly flashing back to when both her mentor and her sister died in the same place.

[ZeroBG82]

Saw the bootleg of the footage. This looks AMAZING. Spoiler tagging just because I want to make sure of the etiquette.

spoilers:

Hoping for Armorer v Bo-Katan at some point. My Armorer is actually Rook Kast Bingo Card is so ready. Did Grogu just speak? I swear I heard a "Yup!" I can't be the only one thinking that the final line of that teaser isn't foreshadowing, can I? "Did you think your dad was the only Mandalorian?" Not only a great line, hopefully after some cool action. But that has to mean we're getting more Mandos, doesn't it?

end of spoilers

Going to be a looooong wait for February.