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  1. #106
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    She could have been Emma Frost of ASM, avant-la-lettre.
    Well, that's kind of Felicia when you think about it.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, that's kind of Felicia when you think about it.
    Felicia is poor, Emma and Gwen are rich. The certain bossy b—chiness that defines Ditko Gwen and Emma are particular to class.

  3. #108
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    I do wonder what Ditko had planned for her. Spider-Man hadn't really had a female antagonist to that point, either as Spider-Man or Peter Parker. Liz was kind of that way at times, but not really.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    I do wonder what Ditko had planned for her. Spider-Man hadn't really had a female antagonist to that point, either as Spider-Man or Peter Parker. Liz was kind of that way at times, but not really.
    Don't think Ditko had real hard plans aside from Norman being Green Goblin, and Mary Jane being an important part of the stories going forward. Those were the only subplots he put real work in developing and charting out.

    Remember that Ditko had plotting credit from ASM#25-38, which he had far more control over than before. ASM#25 is MJ's first pre-appearance where he set-up that she was the one who terrified Betty and Liz Allan on first look, both of them realizing that she has them beat. Ditko's final issues #37-38 were written and drawn when he had already made clear his plans to leave, and what he does in those issues is set up Norman Osborn as a real bad guy and nasty piece of work, and the final pages of ASM#38, once again tease MJ's appearance with Peter just missing her again.

    The thing about Ditko's Gwen is that it illustrates once and for all how the Marvel Method worked and how much the early Marvel era was dominated by Ditko and by extension, Kirby. Because if you read Ditko's Gwen there's no sense of Stan Lee writing against Ditko's intent. It's pretty clear that Lee was following Ditko's ideas for the character. Ditko definitely didn't see Gwen as a special love interest or any such thing for Peter. The minute Ditko leaves, Stan Lee comes in and asserts himself in the story and the difference between Ditko's last issue and Romita Sr's first issues is really striking and jarring. You can sense Stan Lee really putting himself and his own ideas into the characters. Ditko plotted out all the issues between ASM#25-38, which includes Peter graduating high school, it includes the Master Planner Saga (where we first meet Gwen and Harry), so Stan Lee didn't have a lot of say in the development of these characters aside from maybe coming up with the names.

    And in the long-run, despite leaving despite doing nothing to impose any views or judgment on the stories after he left, Ditko's ideas end up unconsciously taking over the series. For instance, Post-Resurrection Norman Osborn is far truer to the version of the character in ASM #37-38 then the lame Dad of the Romita Sr. years. Likewise, despite Stan Lee putting the thumbs on the scales to make Gwen Stacy happen, not even a hundred issues after Ditko left, and MJ ends up as the leading love interest of the entire franchise.

    The one exception is Ditko-Gwen. That version of the character seems to be totally overwritten, which is sad.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 01-03-2020 at 05:19 PM.

  5. #110
    Astonishing Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    She's missing the snobbiness of Ditko Gwen .
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    That Gwen had true promise as a character.
    I loved the snobbiness! And the attitude.


  6. #111
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Felicia is poor, Emma and Gwen are rich. The certain bossy b—chiness that defines Ditko Gwen and Emma are particular to class.
    I guess growing up, but when she becomes a thief she ends up fairly privately wealthy from what we see with the matching taste and attitude.

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