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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    While I like the Juggernaut 2-parter, I actually prefer a lot of Sternís other stories, such as Vultureís revenge arc, the Roxxon Tarantula story where he turns into a giant spider, the Mr Hyde arc, and of course the Hobgoblin storyline (at least what he wrote before other writers took it over and messed it up). I read all of those more often than the Juggernaut 2-parter, although I see why others like it as it showcases Peterís perseverance in the face of enormous odds.... but then again the Lee/Ditko ĎMaster Plannerí arc accomplished that even more efficiently.

    While weíre on the topic of Stern, I thought his brief comeback during the BND era was a dud. The ĎBlankí story was very dull... ah well.
    I agree that the Master Planner Arc was better then the Juggernaut story, but I consider ASM 31-33 to be the greatest comic book series I ever read, so the comparison is a bit unfair. Despite it not being on that level, I still put it in the Top 5 stories in the History of Spider-Man. If I ranked them I might go. 10:Spider-Man No More ( along with ASM 33 my favorite Cover). 9: Spider Island ( this from someone who is no Slott fan). 8: Tablet Series. 7:"Death of Jean DeWolffe. 6: ASM 121-122 ( Although 122 is my second favorite issue behind you guessed it ASM 33). 5: Amazing Fantasy 15. 4: Juggernaut. 3: Kid Who Collected Spider-Man. 2: Kraven's Last Hunt. 1: Master Planner Arc.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    Spider-Man being portrayed as this wimp/court jester has always annoyed me. I think writers at times donít have a good understanding of his abilities. When you take all of Spider-Manís physical gifts and powers into account combined with his intellect he should be one of the deadliest heroes in Marvel. On top of that he has some of the most versatile weapons in the Marvel universe. I wish more writers would accurately depict how much of a force he actually is.
    This is why I don't like many contemporary stories. Oh well. "somebody" likes it, hence sales continue to do well.
    Just not for me.

  3. #18
    Mighty Member Uncanny Mutie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    He is supposed to be very, very fast. It frustrates me that this is so rarely used, as it's a huge advantage.
    This is one of the things that has always annoyed me the most. So many writers already downplay Spider-Man's strength so much, but as if that's not enough, most make him slow and totally ignore the fact that he's supposed to have super speed. And honestly, with his super speed, he should not only be shown jumping, leaping, flipping, and dodging at super speed, but he should also be able to run at a pretty speedy pace as well. Not "Flash" fast, but he definitely should be able to run much faster than an average guy, which I never recall a writer or artist depicting on panel.
    Last edited by Uncanny Mutie; 11-17-2019 at 07:46 PM.

  4. #19
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny Mutie View Post
    This is one of the things that has always annoyed me the most. So many writers already downplay Spider-Man's strength so much, but as if that's not enough, most make him slow and totally ignore the fact that he's supposed to have super speed. And honestly, with his super speed, he should not only be shown jumping, leaping, flipping, and dodging at super speed, but he should also be able to run at a pretty speedy pace ad well. Not "Flash" fast, but he definitely should be able to run much faster than an average guy, which I never recall a writer or artist depicting on panel.
    According to some metrics, Spider-Man should be able to run at least over 100mph, maybe closer to 200mph.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #20
    Fantastic Member RD155's Avatar
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    Near 200 mph might be a bit op. I Agree though he should definitely be much faster then even the fastest human. In regards to his powers....

    There was an issue of Spider-Man #26 were Peter explains each of his powers to MJ. He goes over all of his abilities in detail. Itís the entire focus of the story because MJ realizes that heís never really gone over them and she wants to know. Itís a short story at the end of the issue. Itís pretty much my main reference point for his abilities and I recommend that segment to everyone. Itís literally hands the smost detailed explanation of his powers.

    It was written by Tom DeFalco and of course the art by Bagley is absolutely gorgeous.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    I think it was only in post The Other where we see Peter's running speed being really impressive, since he could keep pace with a car.

  7. #22
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I think it was only in post The Other where we see Peter's running speed being really impressive, since he could keep pace with a car.
    I believe he might have caught up with a car once when he was forced to go without his webs in a suburban neighborhood.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I believe he might have caught up with a car once when he was forced to go without his webs in a suburban neighborhood.
    You mean this?





    'Cause if so, as you can see, he gets in a taxi right away, so by just running he couldn't keep up.

    ASM#267 by the way.

    He did manage to catch up with the car in the end by jumping, at least:



    But yeah, this story doesn't show his running speed being impressive.

  9. #24
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    You mean this?





    'Cause if so, as you can see, he gets in a taxi right away, so by just running he couldn't keep up.

    ASM#267 by the way.

    He did manage to catch up with the car in the end by jumping, at least:



    But yeah, this story doesn't show his running speed being impressive.
    Yeah, that's a shame. They do downplay his running speed a lot in these comics.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #25
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Peter can't run fast. His dummy thicc cheeks slow him down too much and the clapping would alert all the crooks. Sink or swing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    That's what I have over Beelzebub now, Honoka-chan. He thinks he's a third-year school idol. I know what I am. And in this fight-- that makes me INVINCIBLE!

  11. #26
    Incredible Member Seto Kaiba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Like, Spidey doesn't have that many powers, why keep forgetting 'em? Lol.
    Probably because a fully powered Spider-Man should be close to unstoppable by anyone street level. Think about it. The speed, the strength, the webs AND the Spider-Sense? That's insanity.

  12. #27

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    I think it's overrated and not the classic people say it is, but it deserves a revisit for re-evaluation. I love Stern's run, but this one is my least favorite of his stories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Roger Stern when he started on ASM said that he felt that Spider-Man was made into a wimp in the runs before him with people forgetting how strong he is.
    He's mostly right. The best writer to handle his strength after Stan Lee before he took over is probably Bill Mantlo, but he still haven't made him as powerful as Stern presented him to be.

    Nerfed down powers started with Gerry Conway (whose run in Amazing is something I've always thought overrated), he made him a brawler who can tussle with Luke Cage and stun the Hulk in some stories, and then have trouble against the likes of Tarantula who is basically an acrobat, and old man Miles Warren in most of his stories.

    And writers like Len Wein (I love his work on Spidey) kept that trend to some extent. Chris Claremont had more respect for Spidey's strength, but made him faint easily after getting punched a few times although these are punches he should normally endure. Spidey lost consciousness at least once a story in Claremont's Marvel Team-Up run.

    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    Spider-Man being portrayed as this wimp/court jester has always annoyed me. I think writers at times donít have a good understanding of his abilities.
    It's one of the reasons I couldn't get into New Avengers, Bendis made him a jokey wimp in that run and I couldn't keep up with that.
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  13. #28
    Fantastic Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Force League Unlimited View Post
    I think it's overrated and not the classic people say it is, but it deserves a revisit for re-evaluation. I love Stern's run, but this one is my least favorite of his stories.

    He's mostly right. The best writer to handle his strength after Stan Lee before he took over is probably Bill Mantlo, but he still haven't made him as powerful as Stern presented him to be.

    Nerfed down powers started with Gerry Conway (whose run in Amazing is something I've always thought overrated), he made him a brawler who can tussle with Luke Cage and stun the Hulk in some stories, and then have trouble against the likes of Tarantula who is basically an acrobat, and old man Miles Warren in most of his stories.

    And writers like Len Wein (I love his work on Spidey) kept that trend to some extent. Chris Claremont had more respect for Spidey's strength, but made him faint easily after getting punched a few times although these are punches he should normally endure. Spidey lost consciousness at least once a story in Claremont's Marvel Team-Up run.


    It's one of the reasons I couldn't get into New Avengers, Bendis made him a jokey wimp in that run and I couldn't keep up with that.
    Disagree with your thoughts on the story but completely agree with your stance on New Avengers. I absolutely hated how Spider-Man was portrayed through out and that’s coming from a big Bendis fan. He never had a good feel for the character and to me
    It was one of the wimpiest portrayals of the character ever by far.

  14. #29
    Fantastic Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seto Kaiba View Post
    Probably because a fully powered Spider-Man should be close to unstoppable by anyone street level. Think about it. The speed, the strength, the webs AND the Spider-Sense? That's insanity.
    This this and more this. So true. Writers will at times use the “he holds back” line to cover up for it at times. However honestly if you take everything he can do into account you’re looking at a nearly unstoppable character when it comes to him in comparison to the Daredevils, Caps, Wolverines and so on.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Agreed. My favorite of Stern's stuff is ASM#246, "The Daydreamers". It's also Stern's own personal favorite of his entire run but it's been practically forgotten.
    A personal favorite of mine as well, and criminally underrated.

    The Vulture two-parter is genius, and it's a damned shame that we've yet to see it properly adapted in other media. But Vulture just tends to get short-changed for reasons I can't fathom. He has the most striking visual of any of the Ditko villains--I mean, at first glance you can tell this guy will peck your eyes out with his beak nose and not give it a second thought--and yet they're constantly trying to make him younger and less like his namesake.

    His Hobgoblin Lives miniseries (which he plotted and wrote) is good but not among his best. Revenge of the Green Goblin which he plotted (but scripting was mostly done by Paul Jenkins) is better, and I think that's his last substantive story for Spider-Man. In the BND era, I actually like that short sketch he did on Mary Jane in The Many Loves of Spider-Man. The art there is by Ron Frenz. Despite my issues with OMD and disagreements with Stern on how he sees MJ...that story is great and Stern writes from a place of sincerity and compassion, and fondness for the character. So I can't begrudge him that.
    It's hard to compare one-offs and miniseries to his 80s Marvel work because he's so great at running subplots. Hobgoblin Lives is really good but it's also a massive info-dump.

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