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  1. #46
    Fantastic Member Graphicisnovel's Avatar
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    first of all, there was no blame cast.
    second, kwannon was hardly an angel.

    but trumping all of that, lets not forget it all became at a certain point a 'retcon' of sorts. A well intentioned move by some at Marvel to make an asian Xman, for a while she was even an amalgam of both women, and for the most part it worked. How many fans of the character were created, and how many cosplayers, etc.

    Betsy may have taken liberties in the body, but it was under the impression of the writers that for all intents and purposes, Betsy was forever japanese and thats that. A retcon basically, within marvel parameters.

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graphicisnovel View Post
    A well intentioned move by some at Marvel to make an asian Xman
    Nah, it was more about making a cool sexy ninja girl as those were popular, and it stayed cause readers liked that new version.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Kwannon was still alive cuz Betsy retained her ninjutsu knowledge?

    nice try tho.
    That actually makes sense so Im not sure what you're being snippy about. Muscle memory is a thing but it never made sense that Betsy would have access to Kwannon entire training if she only inherited her body and none of her mind. I think Psylocke also had flashback to Kwannons pre body swap memories in the 2009 mini.

    The Cable clones knew what was happening tho. Fuckbuddies is a good way to summarize it.
    Last edited by tuck frump; 11-14-2019 at 12:56 PM.

  4. #49
    Fantastic Member DiamondQueen's Avatar
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    My biggest issue is do I still read Kwannon/Psylocke as British or not.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    The clones knew what was happening tho. Fuckbuddies is a good way to summarize it.
    They knew in the moment, but she specifically only ever approached them between their final log entry for the next clone (and real Cable) and Fantomex killing them. As far as any of them knew, they were the first Cable she'd prepositioned. (I don't think real-Cable ever found out she'd used his clones as RealDolls)

    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondQueen View Post
    My biggest issue is do I still read Kwannon/Psylocke as British or not.
    Not. She couldn't even speak English in Rosenberg's UXM. (We don't even know she spoke English, rather than the mandatory Krakoan conlang, at any point in FA 1)
    Last edited by SanityOrMadness; 11-14-2019 at 12:57 PM.

  6. #51
    Spectacular Member djoki96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondQueen View Post
    My biggest issue is do I still read Kwannon/Psylocke as British or not.
    No. Probably not.

    She might have learned to speak English with an Oxford English accent depending on who taught her, though.

  7. #52
    Fantastic Member DiamondQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanityOrMadness View Post
    Not. She couldn't even speak English in Rosenberg's UXM. (We don't even know she spoke English, rather than the mandatory Krakoan conlang, at any point in FA 1)
    Quote Originally Posted by djoki96 View Post
    No. Probably not.

    She might have learned to speak English with an Oxford English accent depending on who taught her, though.

    Damn gotta pick an new voice for her then. For both actually since Betsy was borrowing her chords at the time.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    That actually makes sense so Im not sure what you're being snippy about. Muscle memory is a thing but it never made sense that Betsy would have access to Kwannon entire training if she only inherited her body and none of her mind. I think Psylocke also had flashback to Kwannons pre body swap memories in the 2009 mini.
    I just reread it (and I don't thank you for it. Bad art, only marginally better writing) and she didn't. Closest was a panel where she's naked with Matsuo when she thought she was Kwannon (post-bodyswap, pre-Acts of Vengeance).

  9. #54
    Emma Been Frost Perfection/Emma 2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondQueen View Post
    My biggest issue is do I still read Kwannon/Psylocke as British or not.
    No and I personally imagine Kwannon's voice being the same as Kurenai from Naruto
    Yara Flor & Emma "Mama" Frost stan account

  10. #55

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    It's interesting how much content is being created by this change. Usually things like this are just swept under the rug so kudos to them for actually telling a story. It's so entwined in the foundations of a big status quo too.

  11. #56
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    Since Marvel is trying to use Betsy as a way to apologise for CB Cebulski parading around as an asian writer in order for his stories to gain some form of legitimacy. But apparently everyone forgot about THAT.

  12. #57
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyButterfly View Post
    Since Marvel is trying to use Betsy as a way to apologise for CB Cebulski parading around as an asian writer in order for his stories to gain some form of legitimacy. But apparently everyone forgot about THAT.
    More like people dont care. This isnt an apology to the Psylocke fans that arent please with how she's had alot of her iconic imagery and motifs stripped from her

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    That actually makes sense so Im not sure what you're being snippy about. Muscle memory is a thing but it never made sense that Betsy would have access to Kwannon entire training if she only inherited her body and none of her mind.
    She definitely gained access to muscle memories and a level of fighting skils she didn't have, just as Revanche gained more expansive telepathic powers and the ability to create psychic weaponry. But Betsy was then trained extensively in her "new body" as Lady Mandarin by the Hand,honing some of her own skills.

    This whole thing is messy and while Betsy should feel guilt and some remorse, no one....NO ONE knew that any trace of Kwannon's psyche was present in that body. not her. Not Emma. Not Rachel. Not Jean. Not Xavier. Not even the Shadow King. None of them once felt a trace of another presence like they did with Carol/Rogue. So it's a retcon that makes things more problematic for no good reason.

  14. #59
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyButterfly View Post
    Since Marvel is trying to use Betsy as a way to apologise for CB Cebulski parading around as an asian writer in order for his stories to gain some form of legitimacy. But apparently everyone forgot about THAT.
    Still can't help but shake my head at that. It's a good thing that Japan was not paying much attention to the controversy or it would have soured prospects of real Nihonjin talent offering their skills to Marvel. Or in the case of Gurihiru, that they're chill enough to keep working with Marvel in spite of it.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

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  15. #60
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    She definitely gained access to muscle memories and a level of fighting skils she didn't have, just as Revanche gained more expansive telepathic powers and the ability to create psychic weaponry. But Betsy was then trained extensively in her "new body" as Lady Mandarin by the Hand,honing some of her own skills.

    This whole thing is messy and while Betsy should feel guilt and some remorse, no one....NO ONE knew that any trace of Kwannon's psyche was present in that body. not her. Not Emma. Not Rachel. Not Jean. Not Xavier. Not even the Shadow King. None of them once felt a trace of another presence like they did with Carol/Rogue. So it's a retcon that makes things more problematic for no good reason.
    She also did some training with Wolverine and continued to do soon her own over the years.

    Its a retcon but I dont think as major as people are making it out to be. Even in the original 90s story, Xavier and Jean could not tell the two women apart. Psychically, they were indistinguishable. How would they be able to determine that Kwannon's psyche had bonded with Betsy's in death

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