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  1. #1

    Default The Shrike vs. The Lensmen

    Hopefully not a stomp one way or the other. I dont know much about the Lensmen other then they are kinda Green Lanterns and likely the inspiration for the GLC.

    Scenario:

    Once a day, the Shrike will choose a civilian planet at random and slaughter it's population. This will happen a total of 30 times. Can the Lensmen at the height of their power locate/stop/destroy/prevent the Shrike before the full month passes?

    Bonus: The Shrike attacks them head on at their strongest base of operations. They have an hour of notice before he appears.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Hopefully not a stomp one way or the other. I dont know much about the Lensmen other then they are kinda Green Lanterns and likely the inspiration for the GLC.

    Scenario:

    Once a day, the Shrike will choose a civilian planet at random and slaughter it's population. This will happen a total of 30 times. Can the Lensmen at the height of their power locate/stop/destroy/prevent the Shrike before the full month passes?

    Bonus: The Shrike attacks them head on at their strongest base of operations. They have an hour of notice before he appears.
    The only real power the Lensman have is telepathy, but they have that in spades and I wouldn't put it past them to be able to locate a single mind in the universe and fry it. So the question is if the Shrike has a mind to fry.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Hopefully not a stomp one way or the other. I dont know much about the Lensmen other then they are kinda Green Lanterns and likely the inspiration for the GLC.

    Scenario:

    Once a day, the Shrike will choose a civilian planet at random and slaughter it's population. This will happen a total of 30 times. Can the Lensmen at the height of their power locate/stop/destroy/prevent the Shrike before the full month passes?

    Bonus: The Shrike attacks them head on at their strongest base of operations. They have an hour of notice before he appears.
    I'm the opposite. I don't know anything about the Shrike. But the technology the Lensman have as standard is amazing. Others can probably define the tech in better detail than I can. Their main guys, Kinnison, Worsel and a couple of others have intergalactic range on their telepathy and Kinnison's wife is even more powerful.

    I think I recall a previous thread about the Lensmen versus the Green Lantern Corps. I wouldn't swear to this but I think there was a consensus that, if this includes the main lensmen and all the science and tech the Lensmen can bring to bear, they would actually win.

    Again, I'm not stating this as a fact. I just seem to recall something to that effect.
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  4. #4

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    I'm not totally sure the Shrike has a real mind to interface with. He's not really organic or alive imo. More like a computer program. This came up previously but was never really concluded one way or the other.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  5. #5
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    I'm not totally sure the Shrike has a real mind to interface with. He's not really organic or alive imo. More like a computer program. This came up previously but was never really concluded one way or the other.
    Doesn't he supposedly exist in all wheres and whens simultaneously ? Or can he just 'show up' there.
    "... and when the Golden Toad started to sing, there was no turning back." - grampagen (Ochazuke)

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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Doesn't he supposedly exist in all wheres and whens simultaneously ? Or can he just 'show up' there.
    Ehh...

    As with most Shrike stuff, it's left sorta vague. My personal interpretation is that it CAN go anywhere/any time, but needs to consciously choose to do so as an entity. I don't feel it's an omnipresent force, no.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    I'm not totally sure the Shrike has a real mind to interface with. He's not really organic or alive imo. More like a computer program. This came up previously but was never really concluded one way or the other.
    Given the origins of the Shrike, the idea that he doesn't have a real mind to interface with seems dubious.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Given the origins of the Shrike, the idea that he doesn't have a real mind to interface with seems dubious.
    Oh, did you finish the books? =)

    I'm assuming you are referring to its connection with Kassad?
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Oh, did you finish the books? =)

    I'm assuming you are referring to its connection with Kassad?
    Yeah and yeah. There's a mind there, and it has trace roots in non mechanical things.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Yeah and yeah. There's a mind there, and it has trace roots in non mechanical things.
    What did you think about the kidney stone scene? :P

    I'm listening to Endymion currently on audible. I'll comment again when I get to the Kassad stuff and freshen up. I wish Dan Simmons had been more clear about some of these things, but I suppose that might have lessened the appeal/mystery to the whole "Im a walking killing literary device" thing.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    I'm the opposite. I don't know anything about the Shrike. But the technology the Lensman have as standard is amazing. Others can probably define the tech in better detail than I can. Their main guys, Kinnison, Worsel and a couple of others have intergalactic range on their telepathy and Kinnison's wife is even more powerful.

    I think I recall a previous thread about the Lensmen versus the Green Lantern Corps. I wouldn't swear to this but I think there was a consensus that, if this includes the main lensmen and all the science and tech the Lensmen can bring to bear, they would actually win.

    Again, I'm not stating this as a fact. I just seem to recall something to that effect.
    If anything, you understate the lensmens power. The Children of the Lens Make Kinnison look like a piker. The fleet size of the their fleet reached upwards of a 100 million ships. There were over 2 billion lensmen at the their top end. The ships they had held weapons such as negative matter bombs, tractors that could hold planets in place, Tractor cutters, Q helix weapons. They have access to mobile planets, the sun Beam (which takes the entire energy output of a sun and directs it in a beam they can control), Planetary size Negative matter spheres. In the final book, they smashed a sun using a planet travelling at 15c. Kinnisons command ship has a speed of 90 parsecs an hour. There are scout ships faster than that. The COTL use indetectable scout ships. It's quite possible they win.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Allan View Post
    If anything, you understate the lensmens power. The Children of the Lens Make Kinnison look like a piker. The fleet size of the their fleet reached upwards of a 100 million ships. There were over 2 billion lensmen at the their top end. The ships they had held weapons such as negative matter bombs, tractors that could hold planets in place, Tractor cutters, Q helix weapons. They have access to mobile planets, the sun Beam (which takes the entire energy output of a sun and directs it in a beam they can control), Planetary size Negative matter spheres. In the final book, they smashed a sun using a planet travelling at 15c. Kinnisons command ship has a speed of 90 parsecs an hour. There are scout ships faster than that. The COTL use indetectable scout ships. It's quite possible they win.
    If it's the entire GL corps I don't see them winning. Especially if the Guardians are involved. Do the Lensmen have a counter for phasing or transmutation? Maybe they do I just don't know.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Allan View Post
    If anything, you understate the lensmens power. The Children of the Lens Make Kinnison look like a piker. The fleet size of the their fleet reached upwards of a 100 million ships. There were over 2 billion lensmen at the their top end. The ships they had held weapons such as negative matter bombs, tractors that could hold planets in place, Tractor cutters, Q helix weapons. They have access to mobile planets, the sun Beam (which takes the entire energy output of a sun and directs it in a beam they can control), Planetary size Negative matter spheres. In the final book, they smashed a sun using a planet travelling at 15c. Kinnisons command ship has a speed of 90 parsecs an hour. There are scout ships faster than that. The COTL use indetectable scout ships. It's quite possible they win.
    The issue for this fight is that while the Lensman have absurd destructive technology (the scope of which I didn't remember, so thanks for the reminder) they have to actually catch the Shrike in it. Light speed is a slow motion crawl to this thing, so it should be able to avoid any sort of bomb after it explodes or beam after it fires. Even if it got stuck in a tractor beam, I think it can teleport out before anything worse was done to it. In the arena that would count as a forfeit by ring out, but not in this scenario. If you rigging civilian planets to explode you're just helping the Shrike win faster.

    You'd need some sort of invisible death on contact thing to work on it. Hence why telepathy seems like the way to go.

  14. #14
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    What did you think about the kidney stone scene? :P

    I'm listening to Endymion currently on audible. I'll comment again when I get to the Kassad stuff and freshen up. I wish Dan Simmons had been more clear about some of these things, but I suppose that might have lessened the appeal/mystery to the whole "Im a walking killing literary device" thing.
    That and also, Simmons is effectively a poet masquerading as a sci-fi author. Guy is not interested in hard facts to any real degree, he defaults back to allegory and emotion over clear cut stuff at almost every opportunity.

    I really enjoy his work but you kind of have to roll with the emotional core of the stories a whole lot rather than trying to follow rational story beats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    If it's the entire GL corps I don't see them winning. Especially if the Guardians are involved. Do the Lensmen have a counter for phasing or transmutation? Maybe they do I just don't know.

    we're actually Talking the Lensmen vs the Shrike, but if you want to talk GLs that's fine too. Do the Lanterns have a counter for telepathic attack at solar system or greater distances?

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