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  1. #31
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    Just as an example. The Eddorians had 2 of their number try to go to Arisia. They passed the screens set up to keep watch. They were taken over by Mentor and rendered insane to the point that they destroyed themselves. The Screens around Eddore are at least as good as the ones around Arisia and are constantly monitored.It These screens block Psy attacks as well as physical attacks. (Blowing up the planet could be a problem for either species) It took the the entire mental power of 2 billion Lensmen backed by all the Arisians, including the CoTL to break through the final screen surrounding the eddorian council chamber. Without all this, the attack on Eddore wouldn't have succeeded. While the Arisians worked on developing Telepathic talents, the Eddorians worked on the Physical side of things. Eddore could not destroy the Arisians with their tech.
    Last edited by Howard Allan; 11-20-2019 at 09:01 PM.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    But it's still a No limits fallacy on this board. Statements aren't feats.
    It's really not. They are unkillable by physical damage because they have no physical bodies. They are pure mental energy.

    It's like saying the most powerful mind controller in the universe cannot mind control a rock. It has nothing to do with the power level. A rock has no mind.
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

  3. #33
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    However, anyone who can interact with 'mental energy' should be able to harm them unless they have feats to show otherwise.

    A powerful telepath, for example.

    If they show up in 'mental energy form', a low-level, Ki-using character from the Anima setting could punch them in the mental nose (NOT nosebone).

    Etc.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    It's really not. They are unkillable by physical damage because they have no physical bodies. They are pure mental energy.

    It's like saying the most powerful mind controller in the universe cannot mind control a rock. It has nothing to do with the power level. A rock has no mind.
    Ah, if they are intangible being then absolutely. Although Sharp does make a good point.

  5. #35
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    Then you have to come up with telepaths of equal strength. Even a 2nd stage lensmen could paralyze an entire continent. A low level one might catch their attention in order to have their mind wiped into a sponge.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    However, anyone who can interact with 'mental energy' should be able to harm them unless they have feats to show otherwise.

    A powerful telepath, for example.

    If they show up in 'mental energy form', a low-level, Ki-using character from the Anima setting could punch them in the mental nose (NOT nosebone).

    Etc.
    It took Kinnison (Second Stage Lensmen) to even find out Mentor was a fusion of 4 beings. No one of lesser mental abilities can even do that much to them. So good luck with that.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Allan View Post
    It took Kinnison (Second Stage Lensmen) to even find out Mentor was a fusion of 4 beings. No one of lesser mental abilities can even do that much to them. So good luck with that.
    He means that a sufficiently powerful telepath could do that; he didn't have anyone specific in mind.

  8. #38
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    He means that a sufficiently powerful telepath could do that; he didn't have anyone specific in mind.
    That, thank you.

    Also, that they aren't 'physically' killable due to being nothing but mental energy. There are things in fiction that can actually physically interact with 'mental energies'.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  9. #39

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    I feel like Dr. Strange or other Astral Plane knowledgeable Marvel types could probably interact with them.
    "At the end of the day, Arby is a pretty prolific poster proposing a plurality of proper posts for us."
    - big_adventure

  10. #40
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    I feel like Dr. Strange or other Astral Plane knowledgeable Marvel types could probably interact with them.
    Probably.

    How do they manifest? Do they have psychic bodies? Do they actually form a manifestation?

    I'm just asking for curiosity, not with regards to this fight (I know nothing in detail about the Shrike).
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade1 View Post
    He means that a sufficiently powerful telepath could do that; he didn't have anyone specific in mind.
    Exactly. It comes down to someone being able to attack on a mental level and feats within that context.
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Probably.

    How do they manifest? Do they have psychic bodies? Do they actually form a manifestation?

    I'm just asking for curiosity, not with regards to this fight (I know nothing in detail about the Shrike).

    I'm not addressing the fight either because I also know nothing about the Shrike.

    The Arisians were once corporeal beings but they evolved... Yada, yada. Their telepathy has universal range. They are capable of somehow generating physical forms which they take turns inhabiting to help civilization. Though the form might be destroyed by physical force, the Arisians will not be although I believe Eddorians at times brought planetary destructive force top bear on one of those forms and it still was not destroyed. Someone mentioned super nova level defenses meaning that they are capable of putting up physical shields powerful enough to defend physical life from destructive forces on such a scale.

    It's hard to get a solid lock because it's them versus the Eddorians who are roughly their equals and it's in novels so we don't see it visually and we don't have direct comparisons to comic book characters.

    Intellectually, they were capable of, starting a billion years ago, predicting minute details of how the universe would progress including the existence of specific individuals and what said individuals would be doing at a precise second.

    As to their direct telepathic power (as opposed to range), I can't say for sure. But even Kinnison who, as stated, could effect an entire planet telepathically, could not see through their illusions IF they were illusions. The Lens itself, worn on the wrist, was stated to not be a physical object at all though even the most powerful lensman telepaths would swear that was a solid physical object they were wearing but the Arisians explained it was a "construct" if the word "construct" even applied of pure thought, more an idea than an object.

    Incidentally, the lenses were training tools meant to give a jump start and the wearer would develop his own abilities. In humans, it jump started their telepathy which is where humans were weakest. In some species that were already telepathically strong, it allowed them to be less self-centered or less cowardly and so on. Before long, Kinnison didn't even need the lens. It was a fraction of the power he had developed. He just wore it because it was also his badge.

    Edit: The question of whether they form psychic bodies? Um, maybe. Again, it's very abstract. Four of them in unison form the being known as Mentor though I gather it is not always the same four. The way it is described, it is very hard to say if they are spatially in a certain place though there is some implication that they are and that their thoughts just have no range limits. In other ways, they are wherever they direct their thoughts to. But it's presented sort of like me saying I am in Hawaii because I'm thinking about Hawaii right now. But they are not there ort anywhere else physically. As I said, it is very abstract in presentation.
    Last edited by Powerboy; 11-21-2019 at 04:33 PM.
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    I'm not addressing the fight either because I also know nothing about the Shrike.

    The Arisians were once corporeal beings but they evolved... Yada, yada. Their telepathy has universal range. They are capable of somehow generating physical forms which they take turns inhabiting to help civilization. Though the form might be destroyed by physical force, the Arisians will not be although I believe Eddorians at times brought planetary destructive force top bear on one of those forms and it still was not destroyed. Someone mentioned super nova level defenses meaning that they are capable of putting up physical shields powerful enough to defend physical life from destructive forces on such a scale.

    It's hard to get a solid lock because it's them versus the Eddorians who are roughly their equals and it's in novels so we don't see it visually and we don't have direct comparisons to comic book characters.

    Intellectually, they were capable of, starting a billion years ago, predicting minute details of how the universe would progress including the existence of specific individuals and what said individuals would be doing at a precise second.

    As to their direct telepathic power (as opposed to range), I can't say for sure. But even Kinnison who, as stated, could effect an entire planet telepathically, could not see through their illusions IF they were illusions. The Lens itself, worn on the wrist, was stated to not be a physical object at all though even the most powerful lensman telepaths would swear that was a solid physical object they were wearing but the Arisians explained it was a "construct" if the word "construct" even applied of pure thought, more an idea than an object.

    Incidentally, the lenses were training tools meant to give a jump start and the wearer would develop his own abilities. In humans, it jump started their telepathy which is where humans were weakest. In some species that were already telepathically strong, it allowed them to be less self-centered or less cowardly and so on. Before long, Kinnison didn't even need the lens. It was a fraction of the power he had developed. He just wore it because it was also his badge.

    Edit: The question of whether they form psychic bodies? Um, maybe. Again, it's very abstract. Four of them in unison form the being known as Mentor though I gather it is not always the same four. The way it is described, it is very hard to say if they are spatially in a certain place though there is some implication that they are and that their thoughts just have no range limits. In other ways, they are wherever they direct their thoughts to. But it's presented sort of like me saying I am in Hawaii because I'm thinking about Hawaii right now. But they are not there ort anywhere else physically. As I said, it is very abstract in presentation.
    That's about as clear as it gets in the books. I personally think of them as living concepts.

  14. #44
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    Great write up!

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