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  1. #91
    Incredible Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Then the proletariat can go start their own nation, see how long they last when the first Sentient shows up. I don't like the concept of others trying to take what someone created. Charles, Eric and Moira created Krakoa now Emma is scheming to make a power play, and playing the woman card. I think Charles, Eric and Moira are in a position to crush any attempted coup. No way would they have built all this and not account for potential betrayal, plotting and coups. Especially with some of the people they would be interacting with. It seems like some are underestimating Xavier and Magneto in favor of Emma, Apocalypse, Mystique and Sinister. I Chuck and Mags know exactly what to expect from their "allies".
    You’re bang on, except that Moira knows Apocalypse so well that he’s not so much an enemy kept close by now as much as a full blown ally in what they are trying to achieve. He’s not a wildcard, he’s an immovable object.

  2. #92
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Then the proletariat can go start their own nation, see how long they last when the first Sentient shows up. I don't like the concept of others trying to take what someone created. Charles, Eric and Moira created Krakoa now Emma is scheming to make a power play, and playing the woman card. I think Charles, Eric and Moira are in a position to crush any attempted coup. No way would they have built all this and not account for potential betrayal, plotting and coups. Especially with some of the people they would be interacting with. It seems like some are underestimating Xavier and Magneto in favor of Emma, Apocalypse, Mystique and Sinister. I Chuck and Mags know exactly what to expect from their "allies".
    Or maybe Emma is preparing for the inevitable moment Magneto starts nailing former allies to the walls indiscriminately. As she rightfully pointed out, moments of sanity for Mags are brief breaths between screams of madness. Or when Xavier mind wipes all of his allies because he didn't like what they said to him (like he did in the Annual). The island has a lot more to fear from those two.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #93
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    they couldnt have created Krakoa the way it is now without Emma resources to distribute the Drug and her influence.

    they arent giving seats in the Council without reasons, almost all members did important contributions to Krakoa and wouldnt have agreed with them without something in exchange.

    The only exception to this would be House of Summer , they are Xavier loyal students after all, I would say that they have their seat to give more strenth to Xavier position

  4. #94
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Or maybe Emma is preparing for the inevitable moment Magneto starts nailing former allies to the walls indiscriminately. As she rightfully pointed out, moments of sanity for Mags are brief breaths between screams of madness. Or when Xavier mind wipes all of his allies because he didn't like what they said to him (like he did in the Annual). The island has a lot more to fear from those two.
    Emma saying it just make it funny. not long ago she controlled Mageneto against inhumans and then later she being friends with villain resulted on magneto killing some mutants kids
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  5. #95
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Emma saying it just make it funny. not long ago she controlled Mageneto against inhumans and then later she being friends with villain resulted on magneto killing some mutants kids
    If you completely ignore any possible context to those actions maybe. Also doesn't negate Magneto nailing hundreds of innocent people to the wall out of petulant rage despite him being affiliated with them more recently than she had.
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  6. #96
    Spectacular Member djoki96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Then the proletariat can go start their own nation, see how long they last when the first Sentient shows up. I don't like the concept of others trying to take what someone created. Charles, Eric and Moira created Krakoa now Emma is scheming to make a power play, and playing the woman card. I think Charles, Eric and Moira are in a position to crush any attempted coup. No way would they have built all this and not account for potential betrayal, plotting and coups. Especially with some of the people they would be interacting with. It seems like some are underestimating Xavier and Magneto in favor of Emma, Apocalypse, Mystique and Sinister. I Chuck and Mags know exactly what to expect from their "allies".
    That's all nice and simplistic and all, but not how nations should work. And that way of thinking would almost certainly lead to dictatorship. And make no mistake, what Magneto and Xavier (along with a lot of other people) created is a nation. And, as such, people should have the right show their dissatisfaction with how it's led. And if dissatisfaction is widespread enough, change the regime. Whether through some democratic process or... well, by staging a coup.
    Last edited by djoki96; 11-15-2019 at 05:51 PM.

  7. #97
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djoki96 View Post
    That's all nice and simplistic and all, but not how nations should work. And that way of thinking would almost certainly lead to dictatorship. And make no mistake, what Magneto and Xavier (along with a lot of other people) created is a nation. And, as such, people should have the right show their dissatisfaction with how it's led. And if dissatisfaction is widespread enough, change the regime. Whether through some democratic process or... well, by staging a coup.
    "Those who make peaceful resolution impossible will find violent revolution inevitable."
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  8. #98
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    If you completely ignore any possible context to those actions maybe. Also doesn't negate Magneto nailing hundreds of innocent people to the wall out of petulant rage despite him being affiliated with them more recently than she had.
    i'm not ignoring anything, Emma reaction was even less proportional than Magneto
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  9. #99
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    i'm not ignoring anything, Emma reaction was even less proportional than Magneto
    I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Emma had nothing to do with the Mothervine mutants attacking Magneto, and actively tried to kill Miss Sinister and Bastion when she realized their full plan. Her controlling Magneto was just IvX being IvX. Meanwhile, Magneto has one of the highest body counts of any character in Marvel, and does that every few years.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  10. #100
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Emma had nothing to do with the Mothervine mutants attacking Magneto, and actively tried to kill Miss Sinister and Bastion when she realized their full plan. Her controlling Magneto was just IvX being IvX. Meanwhile, Magneto has one of the highest body counts of any character in Marvel, and does that every few years.
    She got to team up with villains and was suprised they did bad things? color me surprised. who would have thought about this?
    the plan was all wrong turning people into mutants against their will for starters
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  11. #101
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    She got to team up with villains and was suprised they did bad things? color me surprised. who would have thought about this?
    the plan was all wrong turning people into mutants against their will for starters
    Because she was a stupidly evil cartoon villain at the time. You seem to forget Emma was character assassinated for the better part of two years.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  12. #102
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Because she was a stupidly evil cartoon villain at the time. You seem to forget Emma was character assassinated for the better part of two years.
    Different opinions about it being character assassinated
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  13. #103
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Different opinions about it being character assassinated
    Taking a characterization of 15 years and completely removing any positive aspect of it whatsoever for sole purpose of throwing the character under the bus to cover for editorial's mistakes? Sounds like a large character assassination to me. But you don't consider anything canon between DPS and X-Men Red, so I'm not surprised that eludes you.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkling View Post
    they couldnt have created Krakoa the way it is now without Emma resources to distribute the Drug and her influence.

    they arent giving seats in the Council without reasons, almost all members did important contributions to Krakoa and wouldnt have agreed with them without something in exchange.

    The only exception to this would be House of Summer , they are Xavier loyal students after all, I would say that they have their seat to give more strenth to Xavier position
    There are other ways that the drugs could have been distributed or other individuals that could have done it, Warren, Roberto, Shan! Emma is not the only wealthy mutant in the world. Also she is only responsible for shipping, Xavier owns the companies that manufactures the the drugs. And exactly what great influence does she have that makes her so indispensable to Krakoa? At this point the only mutants that are truly indispensable to Krakoa are the Five because of their roles in the resurrection process, Doug because of his connection to Krakoa and Xavier himself because he is responsible for the mind backup downloads. Even Moira is not truly indispensable now because this timeline is new and what happened in the previous nine lives doesn't apply, this is all new territory. Futher, the drugs themselves are not truly necessary to the existence of Krakoa, yes they are a benefit but it still would have been created without them. And what did the other council members bring to the table, Xavier was under no obligation to give them seats; they were all invited into Krakoa after all the heavy lifting was done. Make no mistake this is all Xavier, Moira and Magneto. After those three I would say Doug and Forge along with the Five did the most. I still maintain that if other mutants think they can do better than what Xavier and Magneto have created then they should leave and go do so. But they can't so instead they plot from within. I look forward to Magneto crushing coup plotters.

  15. #105
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Taking a characterization of 15 years and completely removing any positive aspect of it whatsoever for sole purpose of throwing the character under the bus to cover for editorial's mistakes? Sounds like a large character assassination to me. But you don't consider anything canon between DPS and X-Men Red, so I'm not surprised that eludes you.
    Emma was never a good two shoes. So for me made sense
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