SM/WW Annual #1 & AC Annual #3 Spoilers/Discussion

[Punisher007]

It has been Superman and Wonder Woman, when it isn't being dragged into a Superman cross-over event. So let's not go overboard here.

[Blacksun]

It has been Superman and Wonder Woman, when it isn't being dragged into a Superman cross-over event. So let's not go overboard here.

let be honest, more superman than WW

[dumbduck]

of course Rucka couldn't have sone better. his WW never tried to kill him, even with him almost beating her to death. she was trying to stop him. she was a mature woman not the teenage WW that almost kill superdoom crying. Of course Soule is a genius and can't do no wrong...

I didn't like the 'fight' from the SM/WW annual as well. So it doesn't really matters how it compares to Rucka's. Well she *is* a younger and less experienced woman. But this also doesn't matter. What bothers me is this: Basically, they are the same thing: A mentally weak Superman needing to be saved by Wonder Woman. Again.

I think they were trying to do what Azz did with WW: Her good infuence make Gods, man-amazons and amazons all fight for her but he took many issues to do it. With superman the story isn't the same, it's more about protect the earth than about Superman. If it was like the moment from Death Of superman it could have worked.

The focus on Clark isn't helped, I barely saw stories focused on him. Like there is not build up for Clark kent being so important now

Yeah, but her mistakes, her learning, her needing to be saved, helped, were amongst her cast. Her brother, Hermes, Siracca, Artemis, Hephaestus, Hera, etc. The only outsider is Orion. And she earned the respect, the inspiration.

Supes? It's like you said in another thread:

Superman is the #1 hero? in new 52 it doesn't feel like it. It's the show don't tell

Exactly. I agree completely. I have nothing with Superman needing to be saved from time to time. But Heck, I'd really like some stories were he gets to win, rescue, kick butt from time to time. Psy-War, H'El, JL, FE, SM/WW?

He inspires mainly because he is good. Fine. But the character is starting to suffer, IMO. I read a lot characters talking of how he inspires, would like to see the actions as well.

[dumbduck]

well, first Superman shouldn't date WW.
second: WW clearly isn't the problem, the problem is all with superman writers and editors.

one guy said that WW fans are the one to blame about Superman being lame9 of course we have to accept the guy saving WW all the time) and I try to defend my POV and i'm off topic. oh Please!!!

Heck, no. I wouldn't wish what's been done to Supes on no other character.

"Here Batwoman, keep this piece of Amazonitum in case I ever lose control."

"Thanks Wonder Woman, be sure that I never will abuse this to make myself look good, like ever!"

And thus weak-minded Wonder Woman was born.

With bonus fights were Superman brought her back from her inner darkness.

third: imagine the Azz finale and then Superman goes and figure things out for her. it would be crap and her only had a book, and I don't need superman showing up at every WW problem.

I'm not talking about Azz, but the entire publishing story of Wonder Woman. She has helped and saved him dozens of times in his own comic.

[brettc1]

And thus weak-minded Wonder Woman was born.

With bonus fights were Superman brought her back from her inner darkness.

I'm not sure - is this a reference to how Superman is helping Wonder Woman not be so violent and out of control?

I'm not talking about Azz, but the entire publishing story of Wonder Woman. She has helped and saved him dozens of times in his own comic.

Helped certainly. But saved? I will need examples.

[Lax]

The SM/WW issue has generated very little discussion over on the WW boards because Diana is barely in the issue, and far from relevant. Indeed, you could argue based on the evidence that Lana does just as much if not more in terms of thwarting the evil plan.

Wonder Woman's god mode here, supposedly one of her most awesome abilities, is not only totally useless but gets barely two panels before she is swatted aside. And while there is plenty of time spend exploring Clark's frame of mind [the conversation with Superdoom prior to his entering the atmosphere is done very well] Diana gets hardly any time spent on her thoughts at all. She is essentially limited to telling Batman to have faith in how awesome her boyfriend is.

Combined with Lios actually being able to reach Clark telepathically in this the Action Comics annual, you would have to say that Diana is basically guest starring here.

In short, a lot of disappointed folks who expected the book to actually be Superman/Wonder Woman, and not Superman with a whole lot of other folks including Wonder Woman.

As far as the ineffectiveness of god-mode is concerned, I'll just repeat what I said earlier.

It's for the plot. Soule wanted a throwback to the time Supes asked Wondy to kill him when the time ever came.

How do I know? Because when Hessia was about to be slaughtered by that very same Superdoom, Wonder Woman had no issues with using god-mode to blitz between the two of them, stop Superdoom's charge, lasso him, then drag him into space away from the kryptonite.

There's no particular reason she couldn't have done the exact same thing to save that town.

[hellacre]

I'm not sure - is this a reference to how Superman is helping Wonder Woman not be so violent and out of control?






Helped certainly. But saved? I will need examples.

Phil Jimenez's run. She fought him while he was tag teamed by Circe and Cheetah and turned into a Doomsday like creature and she brought him back to himself. She fought again and saved him and the world in Rucka's Sacrifice. Saved him from Darkseid's Omega Effect in Batman/Superman/Supergirl. That's just off my head I am sure there are many other instances during last canon. Recent JL League when he was sick with the Kryponite shard, did quite a bit of protecting and blocking and trying to save him. Saving does not have to mean physical superiority to everyone to prove a point as you well know seeing how you pick up for Steve all the time on the basis of his intent and not only what he does.

But seems to me Diana tends to help Superman on a deeper level than simply saving him from physical harm too. She reminds him often of who he is and if the reverse is done some WW fans need to stop being so insecure that Diana could never ever need help.

But I agree WW in her own annual could have had more page time and to me the art let down the scene between her and SM/Clark. Fight could have been better paced too and the resolution of the fight was anticlimatic with bad art not helping it.

[brettc1]

Phil Jimenez's run. She fought him while he was tag teamed by Circe and Cheetah and turned into a Doomsday like creature and she brought him back to himself. She fought again and saved him and the world in Rucka's Sacrifice. Saved him from Darkseid's Omega Effect in Batman/Superman/Supergirl. That's just off my head I am sure there are many other instances during last canon. Recent JL League when he was sick with the Kryponite shard, did quite a bit of protecting and blocking and trying to save him. Saving does not have to mean physical superiority to everyone to prove a point as you well know seeing how you pick up for Steve all the time on the basis of his intent and not only what he does.

But seems to me Diana tends to help Superman on a deeper level than simply saving him from physical harm too. She reminds him often of who he is and if the reverse is done some WW fans need to stop being so insecure that Diana could never ever need help.

But I agree WW in her own annual could have had more page time and to me the art let down the scene between her and SM/Clark. Fight could have been better paced too and the resolution of the fight was anticlimatic with bad art not helping it.

Oh, okay - yes, I knew about those instances. I thought you were speaking about now in the New 52.

Considering how badly she was written in Trinity War I am not sure that is a plus

[hellacre]

Oh, okay - yes, I knew about those instances. I thought you were speaking about now in the New 52.

Considering how badly she was written in Trinity War I am not sure that is a plus

LOL. I know Geoff does have her always aggressive but he was pretty helpless once he was infected with the Kryptonite and she did take the lead in going to help him. She also help him during the Zod/Faora fight and when she and Bats and Cyborg went into the Phantom Zone...it was Clark they were trying to save.

[exile001]

Staring with the fact that I loved these annuals and AC 34, something that really got to me was the use of Martian Manhunter. Best New 52 appearances so far for the jolly green giant. Pak, want to write an MM book? I'm buying.

I liked the Lois/Clark dynamic in these, it's nice to see them interact well.

I found it interesting that during his time is space/returning to Earth, Superman kept referring to "Her". We are obviously meant to assume this is Diana, but I'm hoping we get a reveal that he was thinking of Lois by the end of the arc.

[Blacksun]

Staring with the fact that I loved these annuals and AC 34, something that really got to me was the use of Martian Manhunter. Best New 52 appearances so far for the jolly green giant. Pak, want to write an MM book? I'm buying.

I liked the Lois/Clark dynamic in these, it's nice to see them interact well.

I found it interesting that during his time is space/returning to Earth, Superman kept referring to "Her". We are obviously meant to assume this is Diana, but I'm hoping we get a reveal that he was thinking of Lois by the end of the arc.

I doubt this...specially that "Her" was on smww book.

[exile001]

I doubt this...specially that "Her" was on smww book.

It seems pointlessly ambiguous otherwise, but then again, he is losing himself to Superdoom at the time so that could also explain it. We'll see in time.

Forgot to mention Lana and Steel. I love Pak's Lana, and have always been a big Steel fan. Great work with both here.

[Blacksun]

I didn't like the 'fight' from the SM/WW annual as well. So it doesn't really matters how it compares to Rucka's. Well she *is* a younger and less experienced woman. But this also doesn't matter. What bothers me is this: Basically, they are the same thing: A mentally weak Superman needing to be saved by Wonder Woman. Again.




Yeah, but her mistakes, her learning, her needing to be saved, helped, were amongst her cast. Her brother, Hermes, Siracca, Artemis, Hephaestus, Hera, etc. The only outsider is Orion. And she earned the respect, the inspiration.

Supes? It's like you said in another thread:



Exactly. I agree completely. I have nothing with Superman needing to be saved from time to time. But Heck, I'd really like some stories were he gets to win, rescue, kick butt from time to time. Psy-War, H'El, JL, FE, SM/WW?

He inspires mainly because he is good. Fine. But the character is starting to suffer, IMO. I read a lot characters talking of how he inspires, would like to see the actions as well.

I think the problem is the writers/editors. Doomed was conceived by Lobdell, so you know it is bad since the inception.
they keep pressing the same key " superman needs to be saved" in this case is WW and lots of heroes playing superdoom babysitter.
Being good, majority of heroes are. But we need to see why he is the better of them. Actions could really help

[kidstandout]

It has been Superman and Wonder Woman, when it isn't being dragged into a Superman cross-over event. So let's not go overboard here.

going overboard is the norm in these threads, i just learn to take everything blacksun says with a grain of salt