Original Sin #5.3--Thor & Loki: The Tenth Realm #3 *Spoilers*

[Username taken]

As someone who's read her GOTG appearances, it is, massively so (Spawn Universe Angela is even further down the totem pole).

Not only did Thor apparently completely forget how to fight or do anything aside then get beat up, but he is massively stronger and more powerful (Not just a bit more) and while Angela displayed decent reflexes and speed, it's clear that she\s nowhere near fast enough to be > Mjolnir or even > Thor in speed.

Just dumb and lazy writing.

Quoted in agreement.

[jackolover]

Got it, thanks! Now, then, I'm curious as to what this has to do with the overall story? How does this tie into the story of Heven and what repercussions will develop from that. Interesting.

As for Thor calling Freja "Mother", I look it as a sign of respect as she would be the mother of Asgard as Odin was the Father. I could be wrong and Marvel may be trying to alter things, but that's how I am looking at it until I am shown otherwise.

Myself, this is what I have been waiting for. At some time, Odin and Freya, or Loki, are going to reveal to Angela, that not only is she one of her sworn enemy, the McCoys, but that the head McCoy is the Serpent, and he isn't even the one in charge. This is going to freak Angela out. Her brothers, Thor and Loki is bad, Odin would be serious freak out material. But then uncle Cul? Now she really needs to disown the family.

[Prof. Aegis]

Myself, this is what I have been waiting for. At some time, Odin and Freya, or Loki, are going to reveal to Angela, that not only is she one of her sworn enemy, the McCoys, but that the head McCoy is the Serpent, and he isn't even the one in charge. This is going to freak Angela out. Her brothers, Thor and Loki is bad, Odin would be serious freak out material. But then uncle Cul? Now she really needs to disown the family.

Oh I like this! Maybe this is what initiates Angela's new series. It is given the subtitle - Asgard's Assassin.

[jackolover]

Made Angela a lot stronger this issue than she should be. She can fight Gamora, but Gamora is no God of Thunder.

And lol@Loki being a girl again. Not a phase that I fondly remember. Though he's confirmed to be a guy again come Axis.

Superman can manhandle a crook on the street, but when he has to fight Doomsday, he turns a switch and buildings start collapsing. I imagine Angela does the same thing. Gamora level, Angela adjusts to that kind of fight. Thor level, and the powerhouse comes out.

[Ravin' Ray]

Just to offer a theoretical explanation for Angela's defeating Thor: they were fighting in Heven, which may have granted Angela, with her Asgardian physiology and Angelic upbringing and adaptation, a boost that pure native-born Angels don't have. Their reaction to seeing the speed of her reflexes might be a hint of that.

[jackolover]

I like that the Queen of Heven entices Loki to be part of Heven, because this fits with Lokis gifts well, because nobody rewards Loki for his deviousness. So Loki has a home, and this is something he has never had. I like that the Queen of Heven hides that Thors sister is still alive and never existed, because it tells me the Queen won't let Angela go, and wants her stronger than Odin or Freya, and that will be more tragedy again soon to come for the Queen and Angela. I like that the Angels are this grey moral creature, that only bargains with practicalities, and things like honour are arbitrary to them. I like that the Earth was once protected by the Angels and that the Angels killed Asgardians who drifted to Earth for sport, and that Odin allowed this. That tells me Odin was playing with the Angels and did not realise that Heven had a pedantic approach to life. It tells me that maybe Heven was not made by Odin and was a remnant of his Brother Culs creation, of worlds that could produce the Worthy hammer wielders, and at the same time, Heven, where bargains are made. This becomes rather complicated then that not only did Odin put Cul away in past times, but Odin put Heven away too. Things like this are now going to boil over, because that careless Watcher was stupid enough to expose some of this to the world. We always wondered when Cul was going to make his breakout, and this is just the sort of thing that would cause Odin to be vulnerable to Cul.

[Gritterr]

Love Thor, love Angela, love this story. the past 2 years have been great for Thor showings in his solo and across the Avengers books. That said this was a monumental jobbing by Thor Smh. As already stated gamora put up a much better fight. I really hope it turns out Angela gets some sort of home field amp. But that wouldn't make sense since she is asgardian. Poor Thor Lmao.

[vitruvian]

Myself, this is what I have been waiting for. At some time, Odin and Freya, or Loki, are going to reveal to Angela, that not only is she one of her sworn enemy, the McCoys, but that the head McCoy is the Serpent, and he isn't even the one in charge. This is going to freak Angela out. Her brothers, Thor and Loki is bad, Odin would be serious freak out material. But then uncle Cul? Now she really needs to disown the family.

Cul's supposed to be a corpse that Odin is standing vigil over in Asgard-space, I thought.

[vitruvian]

Superman can manhandle a crook on the street, but when he has to fight Doomsday, he turns a switch and buildings start collapsing. I imagine Angela does the same thing. Gamora level, Angela adjusts to that kind of fight. Thor level, and the powerhouse comes out.

Except we've seen before that when people are really hitting Thor hard enough to hurt him, it involves flinging him through buildings if not planets (e.g., the Sentry fight in Uncanny).

I suppose it could be No-Prized that the environment of Heven itself significantly depowers Asgardians.

Even Angela's edge in speed is somewhat suspect against somebody who's demonstrated the ability to fly from Earth to the Sun in seconds, so waaaaay faster than the speed of light. Not that he often displays that kind of speed as part of fighting on the ground, mind you, except when a writer wants to have him be able to intercept fast projectiles, so the speed thing is not a big deal.

[jackolover]

Cul's supposed to be a corpse that Odin is standing vigil over in Asgard-space, I thought.

Yeah, so did I. But people in this thread are saying the two figures, Dark God and White God, are Odin and Cul playing chess, on the first page. I don't know if that is true, but if it is, something is brewing here.

[jackolover]

Except we've seen before that when people are really hitting Thor hard enough to hurt him, it involves flinging him through buildings if not planets (e.g., the Sentry fight in Uncanny).

I suppose it could be No-Prized that the environment of Heven itself significantly depowers Asgardians.

Even Angela's edge in speed is somewhat suspect against somebody who's demonstrated the ability to fly from Earth to the Sun in seconds, so waaaaay faster than the speed of light. Not that he often displays that kind of speed as part of fighting on the ground, mind you, except when a writer wants to have him be able to intercept fast projectiles, so the speed thing is not a big deal.

I thought I read in some book that Thor could grab Quicksilver when Pietro is running, or am I thinking of someone else? But I seem to remember something strange about Heven affecting people that go there, but again, that might be another book.

[Vic Vega]

I don't know enough about Angela to know if Thor jobbed or not.

I mainly remember her ribbons being more dangerous than she was.

[pugbuddy]

Heh, just when Thor was riding high with an excellent solo title they derail that story to shoehorn Angela into Marvel and then create a new, female Thor (as if his name is a mantle) wielding Mjolnir. "House of Ideas." LOL. I'm glad I got off that train before it went haywire.

Yep. The time of the "House of Ideas" has long passed, sadly. The real problem is that they come up with some good ideas--Fraction's horrible Thor run was full of interesting ideas and the "10th Realm" idea could be very interesting if handled well, as examples--but the writers don't have the chops to make the execution match the idea. They regularly just butcher it, usually through poor sub-plots or horrible characterization, along the way....

I've vented enough; nothing left to do but see how it plays out.

[L.R Johansson]

Jeeze... the Angels - they're complete jerks. Seriously, they're complete jerks.

I suppose they'd have a merry time with the Dark Elves. They'd make excellent couples.

Anyways, it's interesting how the conflict is made up, it is in essence about capitalism vs idealism. The Asgardians are the ultimate idealists, that's what their entire society is about - you do stuff because it makes you look good, or feel good.

The Angels are the ultimate capitalists, they do stuff because it will GET them other stuff, which will THEN make them feel good, or look good.

Got it, thanks! Now, then, I'm curious as to what this has to do with the overall story? How does this tie into the story of Heven and what repercussions will develop from that. Interesting.

As for Thor calling Freja "Mother", I look it as a sign of respect as she would be the mother of Asgard as Odin was the Father. I could be wrong and Marvel may be trying to alter things, but that's how I am looking at it until I am shown otherwise.

No, no, no... You've got it wrong, and the rest in here are leading you astray.

Freya, is the renamed, RETconed Frigga.

Fraction changed it, when he wrote Thor, since in some of the variations of the Norse Myths, they aren't separate goddesses, but rather the same. THAT, however... is a minority-view these days.

Frigga is pretty distinct, as the goddess of the morning-star, and of Marriage. Freya is the goddess of Sex, and drugs, and rock'n'roll! Well, not quite... but of magic, sex, and romance. They're fairly similar, but Frigga represents the more restrained aspects of such things.

Freya isn't really the marrying type.

She was a very minor character in the old Thor-comics, basically she only showed up in mostly a cameo-role in the 70's. Her biggest role was a minor speaking one, in the Celestials -saga. But she did exist, as a separate character from Frigga.

Fraction played with the idea that depending on the Ragnarok-cycle, the Asgardians can have different roles, and sometimes, other gods are around, that aren't always around. For instance, since Freya is the goddess of Sex, he played with the idea that sometimes that role is instead taken by the Enchantress - Lorelei.

I can see where he gets the idea... In mythology, the Sun is sometimes Freyr, Sunna, Balder, or Ullr. It depends on the variation.

I guess he felt it was a good idea to bring back Freya into the role as matriarch, instead of the established Frigga - since the myths are varied any way.

I feel that's a mistake tho', and it just complicates things, needlessly.

[king of hybrids]

the thought occurs, the angels would have had their pact with odin around the time he, vi and vili wiped out most of mankind to erase memory of cul; it may indeed be cul in the prison of gods then