Team T'Challa OR Team Namor?

[Anthony Shaw]

TEAM N'CHOR! TEAM TAMALL! They should be lovers, brothers from other mothers, and so on!!! Beast is the REAL enemy here, people!!!

Well, I would love for a writer to somehow repair this alliance when all is said & done. I could see them as a buddy action duo. Together, they would be trouble for just about anyone. I bet Mark Waid could do it.

[Anthony Shaw]

I voted for Team T'Challa.

[People Of The Earth]

Hickman thinks otherwise. But the propping up of T'Challa has been going on for decades now. I think this time it might finally take and no other character may have to suffer from it. So I guess Namor has another notch under his belt, this one for uplifting a character from the dirt.

Namor fans take note and add this to the list of accomplishments. Namor has done something the FF,Storm, DD, and Tony Stark couldn't achieve!

Bitterness is not healthy you know.

[Kieran_Frost]

I will keep reading to see what happens but I'm no longer giving the title my money. I also never let comics ruin my day,they're mere fun entertainment after all. But I too will just tell it like it is.

Whenever Hickman actually turns the ship towards a more even tilt I will be happy to start giving him my money again though.

I wouldn't even say read it in the shop; no point putting yourself through it. Read what you enjoy, stay tuned for spoilers and IF they sound like you'd enjoy it, get the TPB (saves money that way).

(The First Mutant was beyond Epic btw)

Wasn't it just? Such a shame the art went soooooooooo wrong (not in the sense of necessarily bad, but 5 artists in one issue... MAN that messed up the impact of the final arc).

i also believe all polls should be public.

Agreed, I always make polls I create public. The "anonymity" is in our user names, no need to hide who our anonymous user names vote for... posters should not be afraid to own their sh*t (in the nicest possible way )

You've had people arguing up and down for months and months now that Namor gets ALL the good lines in this series. You have guys arguing that Namor's pushing the button is a moment of badassery for him.
Its not clear at all that he's being screwed over as a character.
You might want to argue that Atlantis is being screwed over, but name an Altantean other than Namor that is popular with the majority of the fandom.
Namora and the MIA Namorita don't even live in Atlantis. Andromeda is even more obscure than Stingray (who at least was an Avenger for 5 minutes) Altantis could disappear altogether and it wouldn't do much damage to Namor as a character.
Heck, that was pretty much the case for a good bit of the 70's anyway. The Atlanteans other than Namor and Namorita were all in suspended animation during the Dr. Doom/Namor series.
So I'm not seeing the damage here.

If you were a Beast fan, i'd see your point.

All two Beast fans have accepted their station in life, no need to rub salt in the wound (oh I'm horrible, I should stop; last Beast joke for the day, promise... hee hee)

Well, I would love for a writer to somehow repair this alliance when all is said & done. I could see them as a buddy action duo. Together, they would be trouble for just about anyone. I bet Mark Waid could do it.

All the best buddy-cop movies start out as disliking each other (as do all the best romances... )

[Trident]

You've had people arguing up and down for months and months now that Namor gets ALL the good lines in this series. You have guys arguing that Namor's pushing the button is a moment of badassery for him.

....I haven't had and/or made people say Namor gets all the good lines. I also never really advocated that he did. From issue one my complaint is has been that Namor says one line and his perspective hasn't and wont be told. It was clear from the solicits and the interviews before hand. Heck if this was a verbal communication I would just record what I said and put it on play back to save time cause my story hasn't changed.

Are you confusing me with someone else?

Its not clear at all that he's being screwed over as a character.

It isn't? So the same Phoenix force that has been using Jean Grey for years now gets wiped under rug but suddenly the phoenix has no claim whats so ever on a guy who flooded a city during a war where his enemies should not have been in the first place? Or the fact that every "good" deed Namor has claim to has some other negative thing attached to it? Or the simple fact that his fully voice hasn't been heard?

Your right have no idea how I came to that conclusion. /sarcasm

You might want to argue that Atlantis is being screwed over, but name an Altantean other than Namor that is popular with the majority of the fandom.

Oh and Wakanda is so popular in Fandom? So much so that they actually got panel time saying that the so called "devastation" of AvX was pretty much wiped away in a few weeks time, while Atlantis has gotten nothing after being completely wiped out? Wakanda was so much in popular fandom that side characters have gotten more panel time than actual Illuminati members while characters from Atlantis who pre-date these Wakandan characters haven't been mentioned or brought up at all?

Yeah no dice Vic. Wakanda has not ever been popular among comic fans and yet we have a lot of them and none of the other side.

Namora and the MIA Namorita don't even live in Atlantis. Andromeda is even more obscure than Stingray (who at least was an Avenger for 5 minutes) Altantis could disappear altogether and it wouldn't do much damage to Namor as a character.

Heck, that was pretty much the case for a good bit of the 70's anyway. The Atlanteans other than Namor and Namorita were all in suspended animation during the Dr. Doom/Namor series.

Not sure what your point is here because the same could be said about all of T'Challa's side characters. Like the bald woman body guards that altogether probably have more lines than Beast in NA.

So I'm not seeing the damage here.

Windex might help.

If you were a Beast fan, i'd see your point.

Agreed on one part, Beast fans should be really ticked but at least for the most part he is fine while Namor and Atlantis both are made to look bad. I guess being in the background does have its perks....

Bitterness is not healthy you know.

Not bitter. I really am adding that to the list. I also honestly hope that this will leave T'Challa where he needs to be for the guys who run the MU so other characters have to deal with it. I have more characters that I really like that I don't want to come any where near T'Challa because of what usually comes along with him. I would rather that change for his and everyone else sake.

[Cmbmool]

I'm on Namor side of things...because while his actions were seen as evil Post- AvsX, his mind is strategically sound.

I mean think about it...Shuri DID Attack Atlantis for retaliation and Namor DID send Thanos to Wakanada, but only because he knew that T'Challa and his people could handle it better as they were better equipped for this.

Also, Namor launched the bomb because it was to save the "souls" of the Illuminati members. Also out of all of them, only Namor knew the cost of war and the lives lost trying to defend it. Because Namor DID FIGHT in WW2.

Besides, T'challa comes from a line of selfish kings that only pride themselves and their country and don't really care for the outside world.

[Vic Vega]

@Trident:

I never said that you were the guy saying that Namor was getting all the good lines. That was a bunch of other posters.

Nor did I ever say that Wakanda was popular with the fandom. It isnt. There isn't a fantasy realm in Marvel comicsthat the Fandom really gives a rats ass about and I've been saying that for months.

Marvel can't even put over series taking place in the U.K. or Canada let alone Asgard.

The only places that actually matters to the fandom is NYC for the most part. Then LA whenever it gets a decent amount of heroes living there(they shoud have kept the Xmen in Cali btw).

Wakanda and Atlantis are BOTH like Gotham city after you take away Commisioner Gordon and everybody else in the city that anybody cared about.

2 characters: same problems.

I said Namor and Tchalla were pretty much the same to me in a meta sense and I meant it.

[FanboyStranger]

I actually like both, but I like T'Challa more. I think Namor works better when he's off on his own or as a supporting character (or even villain). He's far less interesting to me when he's tied down to Atlantis. T'Challa, however, is Wakanda.

[Global Honored]

Alright everyone, just another quick reminder to keep discussion about the characters and what happens in the comics. Obviously this is high drama stuff that naturally leads us to choose sides to various degrees. And we can argue the decisions and morality of the choices these characters make for quite a while. Just remember that this is a comic book and a highly entertaining one at that, addictive even. So please just make sure we are debating/critical of the comics and not the fans or fan bases.

For disclosure purposes I did vote...for both. Namor and T'Challa's Yin/Yang duality have made this series incredibly intense and powerful. These are huge names in the Marvel U going down a path that seems to have no return. Can they ever be redeemed? And the weight of that, as handled by these two giants, is something to behold. Look at how busy these threads are. It seems to me that Hickman is the one doing the real button pushing.

[KOSLOX]

Namor DID send Thanos to Wakanada, but only because he knew that T'Challa and his people could handle it better as they were better equipped for this.

That's directly contradicted by the latest issue.

[AcesX1X]

Alright everyone, just another quick reminder to keep discussion about the characters and what happens in the comics. Obviously this is high drama stuff that naturally leads us to choose sides here to various degrees. And we can argue the decisions and morality of the choices these characters make for quite a while. Just remember that this is a comic book and a highly entertaining one at that, addictive even. So please just make sure we are debating/critical of the comics and not the fans or fan bases.

global honored: how do we get the poll made to be public? and why does CBR allow private voting systems to be an option? more of a general question really, but just curious.

[Global Honored]

global honored: how do we get the poll made to be public? and why does CBR allow private voting systems to be an option? more of a general question really, but just curious.

I am not sure if that can be changed. I can edit/adjust the poll options, close date, etc. but I don't believe I have the ability to go in and make the votes public at this point. Even if the OP wanted it changed.

As far as private voting in general, some polls probably should be anonymous. This one could have been public or private, the OP just chose the private option when setting it up.

[MouserGrey]

Lockjaw all the way. thank goodness he was their to prop up Namor.

[UltimateTy]

I'm on Namor side of things...because while his actions were seen as evil Post- AvsX, his mind is strategically sound.

I mean think about it...Shuri DID Attack Atlantis for retaliation and Namor DID send Thanos to Wakanada, but only because he knew that T'Challa and his people could handle it better as they were better equipped for this.

In the last issue it was clearly shown it was out of spite. He wanted them all dead.

Besides, T'challa comes from a line of selfish kings that only pride themselves and their country and don't really care for the outside world.

What does that have to do with T'challa?

[People Of The Earth]

I'm on Namor side of things...because while his actions were seen as evil Post- AvsX, his mind is strategically sound.

I mean think about it...Shuri DID Attack Atlantis for retaliation and Namor DID send Thanos to Wakanada, but only because he knew that T'Challa and his people could handle it better as they were better equipped for this.

Also, Namor launched the bomb because it was to save the "souls" of the Illuminati members. Also out of all of them, only Namor knew the cost of war and the lives lost trying to defend it. Because Namor DID FIGHT in WW2.

Besides, T'challa comes from a line of selfish kings that only pride themselves and their country and don't really care for the outside world.

Strategy was never the motivation behind Namor's lie, he just admitted it himself right in this very issue...
Rationalizing the act is pointless now that the character revealed he acted out of personal hatred toward Wakanda.

Alright everyone, just another quick reminder to keep discussion about the characters and what happens in the comics. Obviously this is high drama stuff that naturally leads us to choose sides to various degrees. And we can argue the decisions and morality of the choices these characters make for quite a while. Just remember that this is a comic book and a highly entertaining one at that, addictive even. So please just make sure we are debating/critical of the comics and not the fans or fan bases.

For disclosure purposes I did vote...for both. Namor and T'Challa's Yin/Yang duality have made this series incredibly intense and powerful. These are huge names in the Marvel U going down a path that seems to have no return. Can they ever be redeemed? And the weight of that, as handled by these two giants, is something to behold. Look at how busy these threads are. It seems to me that Hickman is the one doing the real button pushing.

I don't think they can be redeemed.
No character can walk away from genocide, let alone unscathed, unless the name is Thanos and cie.
The Illuminati did what needed to be done, but it still was an ugly thing to do and they'll have to live with this sin from this point onward.