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  1. #76
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    Since most super heroine titles are written by female Marvel writers, they want the focus to be geared towards young female readers. However, some had failed to realize that a lot of female readers love Spider-Man, as he has a large female audience. Yet no one(writing a heroine series) wants to use Spider-Man in their stories. I certainly would love to see a Black Widow and Spider-Man mini series, for example.
    It's not that Marvel doesn't want to give the female writers Spider-Man, but it's more like if there are too many minis with Spider-Man, there will be an oversaturation character. Kinda like what happens with Batman now or Wolverine in the 2000s. I once heard this from interviews by several creators like Roger Stern, Dan Slott, Gerry Conway, and Gage that Spider-Man is so popular to writers that the usual bloodbath in any creative summits are how the editorial of Spidey fighting that Spider-Man doesn't get appears in every Marvel books available in every few arcs. So, it's not that Marvel doesn't want to give Spider-Man appearances in female book-oriented, but Spider-Man himself is in biweekly books with one monthly side book which means Spider-Man appeared three times a month. It's already three times more appearances than the other flagship book like Fantastic Four, Avengers, and X-Men.

    So in my opinion, the only one to get mini like that is by making TASM main series into monthly book to give a room for one more book which is Spider-Man: Team Up in the style of Avenging Spider-Man, but with round robin writers and artist where each writers can strach their itch of writing spider-man. That's the only reasonable way to make a book where Black Widow and Spider-Man mini appeared out of thin air.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    It's not that Marvel doesn't want to give the female writers Spider-Man, but it's more like if there are too many minis with Spider-Man, there will be an oversaturation character. Kinda like what happens with Batman now or Wolverine in the 2000s. I once heard this from interviews by several creators like Roger Stern, Dan Slott, Gerry Conway, and Gage that Spider-Man is so popular to writers that the usual bloodbath in any creative summits are how the editorial of Spidey fighting that Spider-Man doesn't get appears in every Marvel books available in every few arcs. So, it's not that Marvel doesn't want to give Spider-Man appearances in female book-oriented, but Spider-Man himself is in biweekly books with one monthly side book which means Spider-Man appeared three times a month. It's already three times more appearances than the other flagship book like Fantastic Four, Avengers, and X-Men.

    So in my opinion, the only one to get mini like that is by making TASM main series into monthly book to give a room for one more book which is Spider-Man: Team Up in the style of Avenging Spider-Man, but with round robin writers and artist where each writers can starch their itch of writing spider-man. That's the only reasonable way to make a book where Black Widow and Spider-Man mini appeared out of thin air.
    Avenging Spider-Man was a very good series. This could had been the perfect platform for different writers to work on Spider-Man for a story arc. Instead, the series got cancelled for Superior Spider-Man team-up under Christopher Yost, the sole writer of the series. The one other series that can support a super heroine(in a reoccurring guest spot with Spidey for a story arc) is Spectacular Spider-Man or Web of Spider-Man. As for the Black Widow appearing with Spider-Man out of thin air, she did appear in ASM #86(vol. 1). I feel that the only characters who could fit in Spider-Man's world in a reoccurring guest appearance are as follows:

    1. Tigra(Police Officer/CSI)
    2. Jessica Drew(Investigator)
    3. Jennifer Walters(Attorney)
    4. Black Widow(Espionage)
    5. Carol Danvers(Cosmic Enforcer)
    6. Betsy Braddock(Magic and Sorcery)


    These are the things that each heroine could contribute to the world of Spider-Man....

    Last edited by Darthfury78; 08-30-2020 at 10:00 AM.

  3. #78
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvonmukluk View Post
    I seem to recall he teamed up a fair bit with Cloak & Dagger, which isn't that surprising since they were initially introduced in his book before they got their own series. When Tyrone was accused of attacking Tandy in Runaways, he was the only one who believed in his innocence.
    They teamed up plenty in 80s/90s, although initially they were enemies and then progressed into uncomfortable allies. They got into lots of 'misunderstanding fights'.


    Petey and Dagger also kinda had hots for each other, although that was never explored further. Might be interesting avenue that, if some modern writer would pick them up.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They teamed up plenty in 80s/90s, although initially they were enemies and then progressed into uncomfortable allies. They got into lots of 'misunderstanding fights'.


    Petey and Dagger also kinda had hots for each other, although that was never explored further. Might be interesting avenue that, if some modern writer would pick them up.
    I thought that Cloak & Dagger had the hearts for each other?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    I thought that Cloak & Dagger had the hearts for each other?
    Superheroes by nature don’t have OTPs.

    Dagger and Spider-Man could’ve easily had a tryst.

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Superheroes by nature don’t have OTPs.

    Dagger and Spider-Man could’ve easily had a tryst.
    The big ones do, the B-List sometimes had one, the rest really doesn't.
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  7. #82
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    I thought that Cloak & Dagger had the hearts for each other?
    616-Cloak & Dagger have never been a couple to my knowledge. Cloak used to have big crush on Dagger but it was one way. And he would get jealous at other guys over Dagger but I think he's over it nowadays. I ship Spidey&Dagger as I think it has potential for great drama - mutual physical attraction but completely different in most other respects.

    Ultimate-versions of Cloak and Dagger were a romantic couple IIRC.

  8. #83
    Spectacular Member JTHM's Avatar
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    Wasn't Dagger a teenager in those first interactions with Peter, when Pete was already college age?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    Avenging Spider-Man was a very good series. This could had been the perfect platform for different writers to work on Spider-Man for a story arc. Instead, the series got cancelled for Superior Spider-Man team-up under Christopher Yost, the sole writer of the series. The one other series that can support a super heroine(in a reoccurring guest spot with Spidey for a story arc) is Spectacular Spider-Man or Web of Spider-Man. As for the Black Widow appearing with Spider-Man out of thin air, she did appear in ASM #86(vol. 1). I feel that the only characters who could fit in Spider-Man's world in a reoccurring guest appearance are as follows:

    1. Tigra(Police Officer/CSI)
    2. Jessica Drew(Investigator)
    3. Jennifer Walters(Attorney)
    4. Black Widow(Espionage)
    5. Carol Danvers(Cosmic Enforcer)
    6. Betsy Braddock(Magic and Sorcery)


    These are the things that each heroine could contribute to the world of Spider-Man....

    I never understood the perceived need to hook Peter up with female superheroes. What makes Amazing work is the balance between Peter and his supporting cast ( especially MJ), and Spider-Man. I especially disagree with Natasha. First they do not care for each other ( reread not only ASM 86 but their Marvel Team-Up ( and you will see what I mean)). If you want a spy story Theresa is available to be used, she can also investigate things so Jessica is not needed. As for Carol, I do not object to her, but as everyone knows almost all of the best Spider-Man stories are on a street level ( there is an exception to that for me and I have it noted below). Basically we do not need Spider-Man versus Galactus. Betsy is also unneeded ( you have Dr. Strange), and the same for Jennifer ( Matt Murdoch), as for Tigra it is one of the worst Marvel Team-Ups ever). Is it anti female on my end? Not at all. I loved when Spider-Man was teamed up with Red Sonja (one of my All-Time favorite comics). But just creating reasons to put characters together? A solid no for me.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 09-24-2020 at 05:34 PM.

  10. #85
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I never understood the perceived need to hook Peter up with female superheroes. What makes Amazing work is the balance between Peter and his supporting cast ( especially MJ), and Spider-Man. I especially disagree with Natasha. First they do not care for each other ( reread not only ASM 86 but their Marvel Team-Up ( and you will see what I mean)). If you want a spy story Theresa is available to be used, she can also investigate things so Jessica is not needed. As for Carol, I do not object to her, but as everyone knows almost all of the best Spider-Man stories are on a street level ( there is an exception to that for me and I have it noted below). Basically we do not need Spider-Man versus Galactus. Betsy is also unneeded ( you have Dr. Strange), and the same for Jennifer ( Matt Murdoch), as for Tigra it is one of the worst Marvel Team-Ups ever). Is it anti female on my end? Not at all. I loved when Spider-Man was teamed up with Red Sonja (one of my All-Time favorite comics). But just creating reasons to put characters together? A solid no for me.
    Celebrities and athletes tend to date other celebrities and athletes, makes sense superheroes would also often prefer their peers. That said, I agree that this kind of pairings can easily come across forced even when they're just one-off teamups without romantic undertones.
    I am probably going against the popular opinion here, but I liked Mockingbird arc. I was not much into that era otherwise, but that worked for me. It was built up over suitably long time so it felt like a believable teamup & workplace romance even though huge passion was clearly never involved. And certainly better than 'ooh pheromones, lets bone'.

    Quote Originally Posted by JTHM View Post
    Wasn't Dagger a teenager in those first interactions with Peter, when Pete was already college age?
    Yes she was 16 at the time. Which made it bit weird when they kissed.
    Last edited by Ikari; 09-24-2020 at 06:49 PM.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Celebrities and athletes tend to date other celebrities and athletes, makes sense superheroes would also often prefer their peers. That said, I agree that this kind of pairings can easily come across forced even when they're just one-off teamups without romantic undertones.
    I am probably going against the popular opinion here, but I liked Mockingbird arc. I was not much into that era otherwise, but that worked for me. It was built up over suitably long time so it felt like a believable teamup & workplace romance even though huge passion was clearly never involved. And certainly better than 'ooh pheromones, lets bone'.



    Yes she was 16 at the time. Which made it bit weird when they kissed.
    I am a Yankee and Islanders fan and most of those players do not date ( let alone are married to celebrities). Besides that one big complaint about comic book characters is elitism. Hanging out in Avengers Mansion and rarely dealing with the general public. Peter is an exception to that which is why he is relatable. He holds on to his humanity and actually gives a damn about the average person. Marvel knows this which is why they sent Peter with Wolverine to take kids to Disney. Can you imagine Tony Stark or Steve Rogers doing that? The answer is obvious.

  12. #87
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    I'm honestly starting to think that being "street-level" in itself is a form of elitism. I hate whenever people use it as an excuse as to why Spider-Man shouldn't have bigger storylines and connections.

    Telling his so called "street-level" stories often escalate to the point it would be considered terrorism, like "If This Be My Destiny...".

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Celebrities and athletes tend to date other celebrities and athletes, makes sense superheroes would also often prefer their peers. That said, I agree that this kind of pairings can easily come across forced even when they're just one-off teamups without romantic undertones.
    I am probably going against the popular opinion here, but I liked Mockingbird arc. I was not much into that era otherwise, but that worked for me. It was built up over suitably long time so it felt like a believable teamup & workplace romance even though huge passion was clearly never involved. And certainly better than 'ooh pheromones, lets bone'.



    Yes she was 16 at the time. Which made it bit weird when they kissed.
    To be honest, Peter doesn't seem to be that interested in dating female heroes, everything indicate that he likes to keep his love life as separate of his job as he can, Felicia was an exception and we know how that ended, it seems that civilians are his preference.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    To be honest, Peter doesn't seem to be that interested in dating female heroes, everything indicate that he likes to keep his love life as separate of his job as he can, Felicia was an exception and we know how that ended, it seems that civilians are his preference.
    Too much restriction on Peter only dating civilians. Jennifer Walters was a civilian attorney before being made a super heroine. Carol Danvers was a civilian working at NASA before being made into a super heroine. Greer Nelson was a college student before becoming Tigra. I feel that the heroines I mentioned could still be in a supporting role for Spider-Man. The idea that Peter can't be in a relationship with a super heroine is limiting the story potential. In the Renew You Vows timeline, MJ and their daughter were super heroines; yet no one complained about that. I do not feel that there should be restrictions placed on spider-man and a super heroine just because. Black Cat situation was doomed to fail because she was a thief. Carol Danvers and Jennifer Walters are not criminals. All of Peter's post MJ-relationships were all forgettable, with the exception of Carol Danvers and Mockingbird.

  15. #90
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Besides that one big complaint about comic book characters is elitism. Hanging out in Avengers Mansion and rarely dealing with the general public. Peter is an exception to that which is why he is relatable. He holds on to his humanity and actually gives a damn about the average person. Marvel knows this which is why they sent Peter with Wolverine to take kids to Disney. Can you imagine Tony Stark or Steve Rogers doing that? The answer is obvious.
    Yes that's true, and it's one thing why 'Parker Industries' didn't work too well.
    Seemingly random pairings of Peter with female superheroes is of course comics equivalent to paparazzi journalism. Oh, they're seen together! Is there something there...?

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