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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes that's true, and it's one thing why 'Parker Industries' didn't work too well.
    Seemingly random pairings of Peter with female superheroes is of course comics equivalent to paparazzi journalism. Oh, they're seen together! Is there something there...?
    There is one advantage that has worked in Parker's favor: He's a scientist who could work with The Avengers, X-Men, and Fantastic Four. He doesn't have to appear as Spider-Man. Parker(in comparison to Spidey) doesn't get used at all outside the spider-man books. This gives him an advantage over Wolverine and Deadpool who Marvel loves to pair him with. Neither Logan or Wade share his love for science, unlike:

    Mockingbird
    Tigra
    The Beast
    Captain Marvel
    She-Hulk
    Jessica Drew
    Captain Britain-Betsy Braddock
    Black Widow

    Jason Arron could have used Peter Parker as part of his Avengers team as this would allow him to explore Parker's science background to the fullest extent. We could see Peter providing support for The Avengers in a non Spider-Man role as he would apply his knowledge toward inventing devices for his teammates that is non-Spider related.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes that's true, and it's one thing why 'Parker Industries' didn't work too well.
    Seemingly random pairings of Peter with female superheroes is of course comics equivalent to paparazzi journalism. Oh, they're seen together! Is there something there...?
    I agree with you about the paparazzi stuff. I am one person who does not care about who is dating who. Unless they are a total douche bag ( certain kinds of criminal behavior for example) I judge movie stars and athletes on one thing and one thing only: Their performance and that of the film, team etc. Trying to hook Peter up with some heroine for the sake of doing that ( or because almost everyone else does), is absolutely wrong. The Silk stories which ( along with altering Amazing Fantasy 15) are today to a large extent reviled and make a great example of this, and we saw a Peter that was 180 degrees polar opposite of the Peter most of us like.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 09-25-2020 at 03:04 AM.

  3. #93
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Trying to hook Peter up with some heroine for the sake of doing that ( or because almost everyone else does), is absolutely wrong. The Silk stories which ( along with altering Amazing Fantasy 15) are today to a large extent reviled and make a great example of this, and we saw a Peter that was 180 degrees polar opposite of the Peter most of us like.
    Yes, whole shtick of Spider-Man is that he's a relatable everyman superhero. Now it's no secret Petey likes attractive lady company, but most of his relationships have come across as believable with proper slow buildups which you can't do in a throwaway team-up even if you manage to write some chemistry between characters. And Silk of course is another thing altogether. It was off-putting seeing him wanting a quickie with some bimbo he just met. I am a rare breed who doesn't actually mind Silk as a solo character, but the way she was introducted was nothing short of offensive.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, whole shtick of Spider-Man is that he's a relatable everyman superhero. Now it's no secret Petey likes attractive lady company, but most of his relationships have come across as believable with proper slow buildups which you can't do in a throwaway team-up even if you manage to write some chemistry between characters. And Silk of course is another thing altogether. It was off-putting seeing him wanting a quickie with some bimbo he just met. I am a rare breed who doesn't actually mind Silk as a solo but the way she was introducted was nothing short of offensive.
    I agree with you 100% that Silk was offensive. It was “The straw that broke the camels back for me” and I quit reading comics ( the only comic that interests me is Spider-Man) until Dan Slott left the book. There are only two characters in Spider-Man I hate:Silk and Jackal ( when I saw the cover of Ghost Spider and him on it I actually cringed). I also agree with you that Pete likes the ladies, but he takes the time to establish a relationship instead of James Bond type one night stands. Of course, Peter has one true love and soul mate and that is MJ ( which is another reason why booking him up with super heroines is a bad idea). These ladies may have super powers but they do not have “It” Who has it? Salma Hayak has it, Marilyn Monroe had it, and the inspiration for MJ ( Ann-Margaret ( according to Stan Lee)) had “It.” Trading any of those three ladies for a one night stand is a definite come down in the looks department and on a more personal and intimate level MJ knows Peter in a way no one else does or ever will.

  5. #95
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Funny thing here: as I get in touch with Marvel world intermittently, I read stuff out of sequency and I read Silk's solo series first. And I thought that while adding yet another Spider-character seemed pointless, I mostly liked that series. She had cool visual design, funny internal dialogue and I loved Stacey Lee's art. There were references to this 'thing' she had with Peter and I was like huh? That seems weird, almost fan-fiction-ish. What kind of 'thing' they were? Then I got back in touch with Spider-verse otherwise, including Silk's first appearence and was like 'barf...this is major league stupid'.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Funny thing here: as I get in touch with Marvel world intermittently, I read stuff out of sequency and I read Silk's solo series first. And I thought that while adding yet another Spider-character seemed pointless, I mostly liked that series. She had cool visual design, funny internal dialogue and I loved Stacey Lee's art. There were references to this 'thing' she had with Peter and I was like huh? That seems weird, almost fan-fiction-ish. What kind of 'thing' they were? Then I got back in touch with Spider-verse otherwise, including Silk's first appearence and was like 'barf...this is major league stupid'.
    I ranked Silk number three in the worst Spider-Man stories of all-time. The others are. 5: Sins Past. 4: Clone Saga. 3: Silk. 2: The Other. 1: Last of the bottom feeders: OMD/BND. Sins Past has a great title. I know you like Cindy solo and some like Ben, but none of those stories have one redeeming thing about them for me. I put OMD/BND as slightly worse then The Other because of how much I hate that BND cover ( my comments about it got me banned for a week), but I reread The Other and hated it more then when it originally came out.

  7. #97
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    First impressions are important... I admit had I read them in different order, I might have not even wanted to touch her solo series. I mean, even in Spider-Verse I didn't like her very much.

  8. #98
    Spectacular Member JTHM's Avatar
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    Silk, the current carácter, has almost nothing in common with the smoking hot random spider chick that Slott created. Like, almost nothing. I understand disliking the original appearances, but her own solo was honestly pretty good.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    First impressions are important... I admit had I read them in different order, I might have not even wanted to touch her solo series. I mean, even in Spider-Verse I didn't like her very much.
    I felt that Slott's creation of Silk is a direct ripoff(power set) of Ultimate Universe Spider-Woman, plus Jessica Drew's(616) pheromones. Slott Spider-Man (vol. 3) should have used Jessica Drew and Peter against Black Cat and Electro. This could had been a great way to introduce the character to those who would not have followed Spider-Woman. Secondly, Slott should have focused on Mockingbird and Spider-Man's shared interest towards their science background instead of making them lovers. The reason why MJ works so well with Peter (as a love interest) is because they started off as friends(and not lovers) right away. It was a slow build up. With Black Cat, it was a slow build up until the wrong writer(Black Cat loves Spider-Man; not Peter Parker) destroyed their potential dynamic.

    All of Spider-Man's relationships has been limited to Spider-Man only created characters. No one whats to expand beyond the Spider-Office to use other characters who can challenge Spider-Man and Peter Parker respectively.
    Last edited by Darthfury78; 09-25-2020 at 10:44 AM.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHM View Post
    Silk, the current carácter, has almost nothing in common with the smoking hot random spider chick that Slott created. Like, almost nothing. I understand disliking the original appearances, but her own solo was honestly pretty good.
    The current Silk is very good because the succeeding writers had to clean up Slott's mess the he created. The writers of Silk has done a very good job with the character. Too bad the same wasn't done with Alpha, who was a total jerk when Slott introduced him as Peter's sidekick. I wished that Slott had used Jennifer Walters and Peter Parker during his run on Spider-Man by focusing on their shared interest in the same manner as Jean DeWolf and Daredevil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    If the characters were being invented today, Peter would still be 15.
    As well as the original X-Men. They are around the same age as Peter Parker. A shame that Spidey was not part of The original X-Men team as Charles Xavier would had been a great mentor to Peter Parker, as well as the Beast due to their love for science. The only other friendship that could have rivaled the Human Torch and Spider-Man is The Beast and Spider-Man.
    Last edited by Darthfury78; 09-25-2020 at 10:56 AM.

  11. #101
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    I felt that Slott's creation of Silk is a direct ripoff(power set) of Ultimate Universe Spider-Woman, plus Jessica Drew's(616) pheromones. Slott Spider-Man (vol. 3) should have used Jessica Drew and Peter against Black Cat and Electro. This could had been a great way to introduce the character to those who would not have followed Spider-Woman. Secondly, Slott should have focused on Mockingbird and Spider-Man's shared interest towards their science background instead of making them lovers. The reason why MJ works so well with Peter (as a love interest) is because they started off as friends(and not lovers) right away. It was a slow build up. With Black Cat, it was a slow build up until the wrong writer(Black Cat loves Spider-Man; not Peter Parker) destroyed their potential dynamic.
    In fairness to Slott, Spidey-Mockingbird had pretty slow burn and as I said earlier, it was one of the few things I liked in that era. Was hardly the greatest Spider-romance, but felt believable and Bobbi was fun. Silk, by contrast, seemed like ripped off from a cheap porn movie - here we have a pretty girl locked away 10 years in the bunker, and she now has an insatiable sex drive! Eww.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    616-Cloak & Dagger have never been a couple to my knowledge. Cloak used to have big crush on Dagger but it was one way. And he would get jealous at other guys over Dagger but I think he's over it nowadays. I ship Spidey&Dagger as I think it has potential for great drama - mutual physical attraction but completely different in most other respects.

    Ultimate-versions of Cloak and Dagger were a romantic couple IIRC.
    There was a lot of subtext over the years that Ty & Tandy were mutually attracted to one another (and just never really on the same page), and as of the latest Cloak & Dagger series they're canonically in a romantic relationship.
    Quote Originally Posted by JTHM View Post
    Wasn't Dagger a teenager in those first interactions with Peter, when Pete was already college age?
    Yes. I think she was actually meant to be 15 at the time. It get worse when you consider that I beleive part of Tandy's backstory for why she ran away to New York in the first place was because she got groomed by an older guy.

    I interpret those early interactions as Tandy maybe having slight crush, but I think anything further gets into some sketchy territory.

  13. #103
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvonmukluk View Post
    There was a lot of subtext over the years that Ty & Tandy were mutually attracted to one another (and just never really on the same page), and as of the latest Cloak & Dagger series they're canonically in a romantic relationship.

    Yes. I think she was actually meant to be 15 at the time. It get worse when you consider that I beleive part of Tandy's backstory for why she ran away to New York in the first place was because she got groomed by an older guy.

    I interpret those early interactions as Tandy maybe having slight crush, but I think anything further gets into some sketchy territory.
    I actually just read Cloak&Dagger first apperance in Mantlo's Spec and Peter called her the "most beautifull girl he has ever seen".

    In fairness thougth, i don't think that he was interested on her, he was just impressed by how her powers make her look.
    Last edited by TheCape; 09-25-2020 at 02:47 PM.
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    In fairness to Slott, Spidey-Mockingbird had pretty slow burn and as I said earlier, it was one of the few things I liked in that era. Was hardly the greatest Spider-romance, but felt believable and Bobbi was fun. Silk, by contrast, seemed like ripped off from a cheap porn movie - here we have a pretty girl locked away 10 years in the bunker, and she now has an insatiable sex drive! Eww.
    Slott should have kept Bobbi and Peter as friends who could collaborate their respective science background. What would had been interesting to see them realizing that they have a connection to Dr. Ted Salis, Hank McCoy, Moira MacTaggert, as well as Dr. Curt Conners. I would love to see Nick Spencer bring back Bobbi into the pages of Spider-Man as Peter ally once again on the basis of their love for science.

  15. #105
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvonmukluk View Post
    There was a lot of subtext over the years that Ty & Tandy were mutually attracted to one another (and just never really on the same page), and as of the latest Cloak & Dagger series they're canonically in a romantic relationship.
    It was not very subtext, it was very explicit that Tyrone was head over heels about Tandy, who only saw him as a friend and companion and necessity (they literally can't live without each other, the way their powers are linked). It actually annoyed me greatly because they kept it going for far too long which really hurt Cloak's character. I was always like, sheesh, either make them a couple or have Cloak get over his crush.
    I am not up-to-date with the latest developments, most recent I have read is the Spider-Island (2014) miniseries, where it is made very clear that Cloak & Dagger are not a couple. I think the TV show portrayed them as a couple?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yvonmukluk View Post
    Yes. I think she was actually meant to be 15 at the time. It get worse when you consider that I beleive part of Tandy's backstory for why she ran away to New York in the first place was because she got groomed by an older guy.

    I interpret those early interactions as Tandy maybe having slight crush, but I think anything further gets into some sketchy territory.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I actually just read Cloak&Dagger first apperance in Mantlo's Spec and Peter called her the "most beautifull girl he has ever seen".

    In fairness thougth, i don't think that he was interested on her, he was just impressed by how her powers make her look.
    It was bit more than that, Spider-Man even listed her amongst the 'women of his life':
    PPTSSM81_Romance.jpg

    And of course later on, it did get kinda sketchy:


    Dagger was always described as exceptionally beautiful (even by superhero-world standards), with lots of guys being smitten about her or developing dangerous obsessions.
    Last edited by Ikari; 09-25-2020 at 03:25 PM.

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