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  1. #31
    Spectacular Member djoki96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Londo Bellian View Post
    This might actually be spot on, considering her late and lamented father was DOCTOR Grey, a physician.
    Eh, depending on the writer. Officially, her father is a Professor of History at Bard College.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Boom Boom is a post-binary socialist with a penchant for anarchy.

  3. #33
    Spectacular Member Nimrod's Avatar
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    Keep bull shit real world politics out of it.

    I don't care what a WRITER would think political. Especially in today's age. I'm Australian and since Trump has been voted in all I hear is trump this trump that. Trump invented cancer, Trump was the real cause of WW2. Trump is to blame for climate change. Trump was flying the planes on911. Trump is really a Nazi orange suprimicist bent on making the whole world orange.

    And can we stick to fake imaginary politics in a imaginary world. If wolverine votes trump and cyclops votes Clinton this is simply not relevant.

    Besides do you think that mutants (Especially now) care about Republican or Democrat. I think they'd care as much about it as the rest of the world. We don't care. It's just another way progressive writers can virtue signal.

    I'd prefer to hear about how the mutant nation deals with global warming. And that is a very small percentage point.
    Last edited by Nimrod; 11-16-2019 at 09:30 PM.
    “I am the ultimate hunter, come from the future to destroy you.”

  4. #34
    Spectacular Member GarDian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    How many dictators has she hooked up with? She loves authoritarian and egomaniacal figures.
    Authoritarian is more up/down spectrum with its polar opposite being anarchists. And/or both far ends of left and right are pretty authoritarian.
    On the right, agreed on dictatorship. On the far left is socialism/communism. Imagine giving that much power/ wealth to control to a small group of people. Its equally as authoritarian.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarDian View Post
    Authoritarian is more up/down spectrum with its polar opposite being anarchists. And/or both far ends of left and right are pretty authoritarian.
    On the right, agreed on dictatorship. On the far left is socialism/communism. Imagine giving that much power/ wealth to control to a small group of people. Its equally as authoritarian.
    nope.
    10char

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarDian View Post
    Authoritarian is more up/down spectrum with its polar opposite being anarchists. And/or both far ends of left and right are pretty authoritarian.
    On the right, agreed on dictatorship. On the far left is socialism/communism. Imagine giving that much power/ wealth to control to a small group of people. Its equally as authoritarian.
    This is a very confused take.

    Its too simplistic to view politics as a line. Even this take as a graph is too simplistic.

    https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

    Centrism is a misnomer. It implies balance but it is not balanced in the USA. It means you are hypermilitarised. Especially in the USA because the overton window is shifted so far to the right. Bernie would be a true centrist in Europe.

    You can also get authoritarian "centrists" the US government for the last 40 years at minimum as well as libertarian far right wingers and far leftists.
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 11-17-2019 at 04:48 AM.

  7. #37
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Magneto is on the LEFT. (he wants massive change, empower the suffering group which are mutants). From that PoV Xavier is more of a moderate/centrist (slow tinkering, make promises, try to keep mutants "civil" and "know theirplace" within the human-dominated system, but not the courage to truly make it different). Apocalypse yeah is more of a right-wing fascist at least how he's normally portrayed (social darwinism, mutants are superior and that superiority is demonstrated throughperpetual competition or combat). There are other ideologies though, like Mystique is a "nihilist" who "lives for today", hard to place that politically. Emma Frost like a more developed or sophisticated version of the Mystique ideology, basically "libertarianism"as in mutants should focus on self-development and succeeding within or without the currently constructed human society, but more for their own sake and not for mutants "as a whole". I would argue Rogue/Rahne have a traditional right ideology of sucking upto powers that be, not questioning or being skeptical, they accept that mutants are evil/wrong and want to convert to humans or are ok with humans treating them like garbage (obviously these characters have evolved but you know what I mean).
    Pretty much agree with most of this. Simplifying a lot (just in order you can follow my train of though, which might differ a bit from USA traditional politics), I consider that right-wing puts all possibilities and responsabilities in individuals, setting boundaries to public morals but not to assets, and minimizing state control. On the other hand, left-wing has a community point of view, its morals are more open-minded, and supports a strong and responsible state in order to adjust inequalities. BTW, I don't believe you can be 'apolitical': you're political just by thinking and acting, even if it's just for default.

    My thoughts:

    EMMA FROST: Right. Neoliberal.

    MAGNETO: Far left. Separatist.

    CHARLES XAVIER: Left.

    NIGHTCRAWLER: Left.

    COLOSSUS: Left. Communist.

    SHADOWCAT: Center. Moral liberal.

    WOLFSBANE: Right. Conservative. (But very prone to radically change her mind).

    SUNSPOT: Right. Neoliberal.

    CANNONBALL: Center. Conservative.

    STORM: Center-progressive. (A bit too enthusiast of personal leadership).

    WOLVERINE: Right. Moral liberal.

    MYSTIQUE: Anarchy (but in the destructor sense of the word).

    LONGSHOT: Acracy (in the literal sense of the word). Not the same thing than Anarchy.

    [To be continued…]

  8. #38
    Spectacular Member djoki96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarDian View Post
    Authoritarian is more up/down spectrum with its polar opposite being anarchists. And/or both far ends of left and right are pretty authoritarian.
    On the right, agreed on dictatorship. On the far left is socialism/communism. Imagine giving that much power/ wealth to control to a small group of people. Its equally as authoritarian.
    Nope. "Far left" does not equate authoritarianism. Anarchist are "far leftist" and we're obviously not authoritarianist. Far right on the other hand...

  9. #39
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djoki96 View Post
    Nope. "Far left" does not equate authoritarianism. Anarchist are "far leftist" and we're obviously not authoritarianist. Far right on the other hand...
    Yeah. When I say Mystique is anarchist, it's for the lack of a better word: I don't consider she's leftist, not by a long shot, but a far cynic who wants the world on fire while she's taking advantage only for herself. So, ultraliberal in a certain way. Punk covers people from both sides (look at Oi! vs. Red Skins).

  10. #40
    Spectacular Member djoki96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    Yeah. When I say Mystique is anarchist, it's for the lack of a better word: I don't consider she's leftist, not by a long shot, but a far cynic who wants the world on fire while she's taking advantage only for herself. So, ultraliberal in a certain way. Punk covers people from both sides (look at Oi! vs. Red Skins).
    Oh no, I gotcha. I was answering to another person.

  11. #41
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djoki96 View Post
    Oh no, I gotcha. I was answering to another person.
    Yeah, I know, I was answering in general for clarification purposes

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    This is a very confused take.

    Its too simplistic to view politics as a line. Even this take as a graph is too simplistic.

    https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

    Centrism is a misnomer. It implies balance but it is not balanced in the USA. It means you are hypermilitarised. Especially in the USA because the overton window is shifted so far to the right. Bernie would be a true centrist in Europe.

    You can also get authoritarian "centrists" the US government for the last 40 years at minimum as well as libertarian far right wingers and far leftists.
    actually the general shift to the right applies to Europe too. I wouldnt say Sanders would be qualified a centrist here, since current centrists are pretty right leaning especially on economic policies.

  13. #43
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    actually the general shift to the right applies to Europe too. I wouldnt say Sanders would be qualified a centrist here, since current centrists are pretty right leaning especially on economic policies.
    Sanders would be considered a socialist in most European countries too. Especially woke 2020 Bernie.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    This thread already exists.... and it depends how you define things but basically I like to define mutants politics mainly in terms of their relations with humanity... Magneto is on the LEFT. (he wants massive change, empower the suffering group which are mutants). From that PoV Xavier is more of a moderate/centrist (slow tinkering, make promises, try to keep mutants "civil" and "know their place" within the human-dominated system, but not the courage to truly make it different). Apocalypse yeah is more of a right-wing fascist at least how he's normally portrayed (social darwinism, mutants are superior and that superiority is demonstrated through perpetual competition or combat). There are other ideologies though, like Mystique is a "nihilist" who "lives for today", hard to place that politically. Emma Frost like a more developed or sophisticated version of the Mystique ideology, basically "libertarianism" as in mutants should focus on self-development and succeeding within or without the currently constructed human society, but more for their own sake and not for mutants "as a whole". I would argue Rogue/Rahne have a traditional right ideology of sucking up to powers that be, not questioning or being skeptical, they accept that mutants are evil/wrong and want to convert to humans or are ok with humans treating them like garbage (obviously these characters have evolved but you know what I mean).
    Leftists want to empower marginalized groups because they believe in equality and fairness for everyone, this is pointedly NOT what Magneto believes. He wants to empower mutants specifically because he believes that they are superior to the humans and should displace them as the dominant species on Earth, he couldn't care less about the rights of anyone outside of the group he belongs to. Not to mention that his vision of mutant society is a strictly hierarchical one where the strong mutants rule over the weak ones and everyone accepts their proper place as determined by their power set, which just so happens to favor him and his family, who are some of the most powerful mutants around but which by any objective analysis are completely unfit to rule.

    Magneto was specifically modeled on terrorist turned statesman Menachem Begin and very much represents how in certain movements, like Zionism, left wing utopians and right wing identitarians can fight alongside each other for a common cause because their interests just so happen to align. But once they do achieve victory, the coalition becomes untenable because the leftists are content to live in peace with their former enemies, but rightists will deem any kind of coexistence untenable and argue that the only to avoid being dominated again is to dominate others.

    And just in general, it's really hard to pinpoint the political leanings of most X-Men because we have absolutely no idea what their views on economic policy would be, and on social policy all superheroes must be portrayed simultaneously as protectors of freedom and equality, but also as defenders of law and order, and that circle is often difficult to square. Broadly speaking, most of them would probably have a combination of all the nice-sounding viewpoints from both the left and the right, without ever addressing the fundamental conflicts between those views. Like it's very easy for a fictional character to be in favor of unlimited personal freedoms for everyone, while also believing in complete equality for all with no qualifiers, but in real life you'd have a hard time addressing all the contradictions of that world view.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 11-17-2019 at 06:51 AM.

  15. #45
    Spectacular Member djoki96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    Sanders would be considered a socialist in most European countries too. Especially woke 2020 Bernie.
    Nah. Social Democrat. Capitalist with more socialist programs than usual.

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