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  1. #46
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djoki96 View Post
    Nah. Social Democrat. Capitalist with more socialist programs than usual.
    Most Social Democratic parties embraced austerity and neoliberalism. You’d have to go further left to see which parties now embrace what used to be the Social Democrats.
    Last edited by Maestroneto; 11-17-2019 at 06:49 AM.

  2. #47
    Incredible Member FIGHT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djoki96 View Post
    Nah. Social Democrat. Capitalist with more socialist programs than usual.
    he support worker co ops tho.

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    Sanders would be considered a socialist in most European countries too. Especially woke 2020 Bernie.
    He wouldn't be considered it over here he's no Corbyn or Melanchon, even woke Bernie is poor on foreign policy. He's only considered good by US standards
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 11-17-2019 at 07:45 AM.

  4. #49
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    I wouldnt say Sanders would be qualified a centrist here, since current centrists are pretty right leaning especially on economic policies.
    Agree. In my humble understanding, and watching from the sidelines, I personally would consider Sanders a common leftist. Democratic Party, though, is for me centrist --even right-centrist. Republican Party is practically far right for me.

    I don't know any far leftist politician in US.

    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Leftists want to empower marginalized groups because they believe in equality and fairness for everyone, this is pointedly NOT what Magneto believes. He wants to empower mutants specifically because he believes that they are superior to the humans and should displace them as the dominant species on Earth, he couldn't care less about the rights of anyone outside of the group he belongs to. Not to mention that his vision of mutant society is a strictly hierarchical one where the strong mutants rule over the weak ones and everyone accepts their proper place as determined by their power set, which just so happens to favor him and his family, who are some of the most powerful mutants around but which by any objective analysis are completely unfit to rule.

    Magneto was specifically modeled on terrorist turned statesman Menachem Begin and very much represents how in certain movements, like Zionism, left wing utopians and right wing identitarians can fight alongside each other for a common cause because their interests just so happen to align. But once they do achieve victory, the coalition becomes untenable because the leftists are content to live in peace with their former enemies, but rightists will deem any kind of coexistence untenable and argue that the only to avoid being dominated again is to dominate others.
    Quite accurated.


    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    And just in general, it's really hard to pinpoint the political leanings of most X-Men because we have absolutely no idea what their views on economic policy would be, and on social policy all superheroes must be portrayed simultaneously as protectors of freedom and equality, but also as defenders of law and order, and that circle is often difficult to square. Broadly speaking, most of them would probably have a combination of all the nice-sounding viewpoints from both the left and the right, without ever addressing the fundamental conflicts between those views. Like it's very easy for a fictional character to be in favor of unlimited personal freedoms for everyone, while also believing in complete equality for all with no qualifiers, but in real life you'd have a hard time addressing all the contradictions of that world view.
    You have a point at X-Men as a team, but I still think they're individuals and we can have hints of their different particular positions through their acts, thoughts and words. E.g., which one's prone to use firearms, which one supports death penalty, which one sees salvation through universal and egalitarian education, which one grows rich with transnational corps (I don't care about charitable works), which one looks what happens beyond mutant issues, which one relates more and better with no mutants, which one works the best and which one works the worst as a team, and so on.

    PS: Which one collaborates with far right governments or paramilitary organizations...
    Last edited by Ricochet Rita; 11-17-2019 at 08:11 AM.

  5. #50
    Spectacular Member djoki96's Avatar
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    You know what? I'm just digressing from the topic, so I'm gonna stop here.
    Last edited by djoki96; 11-17-2019 at 08:34 AM.

  6. #51
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    I do not digress. I don't support 'force' neither 'suppression', but I've recently witnessed what happens when you deal with ultraintolerant groups, which don't respect human rights, as if they were an acceptable group in terms of politics.

    EDIT!!!: This post was in response to previous #50, which has removed its content. Now it has little sense. Also, where I said 'digress' I meant 'dissent'. My bad.
    Last edited by Ricochet Rita; 11-18-2019 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Previous post has removed its content, so this one is now somehow confuse.

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  8. #53
    Incredible Member maxi_miceli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarDian View Post
    Authoritarian is more up/down spectrum with its polar opposite being anarchists. And/or both far ends of left and right are pretty authoritarian.
    On the right, agreed on dictatorship. On the far left is socialism/communism. Imagine giving that much power/ wealth to control to a small group of people. Its equally as authoritarian.
    Left-right is a separate spectrum than authoritarian-libertarian, you have far-right authoritarians like fascist and libertarians like American libertarians (though in it's effects the only difference is oppression by the state to maintain the companies power or just by companies) and you have far-left authoritarians like Leninists and Maoists and you have far-left libertarians like anarchists (socialists are on the left libertarian spectrum but in the middle between libertarian and the center and communists are too varied, they are different versions on both sides of the spectrum, and that's only if we consider the socialist/communist division made by European socialist parties, a socialist state is supposed to build towards communism, communism isn't an alternative to capitalism, is the next stage, like capitalism was to feudalims).

    Studies have shown that centrists are the group most opposed to democracy, which makes sense since centrism is the maintenance of the status quo and that requires a zealot opposition to the voices of the majority who demands change, all fascists dictators got into power with the support of centrists
    Last edited by maxi_miceli; 11-17-2019 at 12:35 PM.

  9. #54
    Spectacular Member djoki96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    I do not digress. I don't support 'force' neither 'suppression', but I've recently witnessed what happens when you deal with ultraintolerant groups, which don't respect human rights, as if they were an acceptable group in terms of politics.

    EDIT!!!: This post was in response to previous #50, which has removed its content. Now it has little sense.
    It's okay, just gonna say that I've quoted Popper's Paradox of Tolerance and let people who are unaware of it to Google it. Now it makes perfect sense.

  10. #55
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djoki96 View Post
    It's okay, just gonna say that I've quoted Popper's Paradox of Tolerance and let people who are unaware of it to Google it. Now it makes perfect sense.
    Actually it not makes complete sense because I confused 'digress' and 'dissent' My bad, since English is not my mother tongue. I apologize and promise to stop here, too LOL

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