Why does Clark have more success on the small screen instead of the big screen?

[daBronzeBomma]

Sorry, but the question makes NO SENSE....

Superman I and especially Superman II are seen as some of the best Super-Hero Films ever made!!

If you speak about the current situation I would say the following:
1.) In the TV Series he had his PARENTS and I really loved it.
2.) The TV Series had a positive atmosphere
3.) The TV Series showed a good version of CLARK KENT, I really DONT LIKE the MoS Clark.

If the question made no sense, then we wouldn't have 6 pages of coherent discussion about it. Which we do.

And let's break down Clark's overall live-action feature film career by whether it was a Big Success, Moderate Success, Moderate Failure, Big Failure.

1. SUPERMAN AND THE MOLE MEN (1951) pros: led to the mega-successful TV series also starring George Reeves. Cons: almost no one remembers that this was Clark's first feature film. Grade: Moderate success.

2. SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE. Pros: the big bang of the modern superhero feature film genre that set up much of the format. Cons: pace is agonizingly slow by today's standards. Grade: Big success.

3. SUPERMAN II. Pros: 1st super-powered onscreen fight. Cons: hodge-podge tone due to two directors with different styles, mind wipe kiss lacks consent. Grade: Big Success.

4. SUPERMAN III. Pros: uh, still top 5 commercial domestic films of 1983? Cons: terrible sfx and story. Grade: Moderate failure.

5. SUPERMAN IV - THE QUEST FOR PEACE. Pros: none. Cons: all. Grade: Big Failure.

6. SUPERMAN RETURNS. Pros: excellent plane rescue scene and bullet off the eye scenes. Cons: terrible costume, terrible Lois, wasted Lex, no action, deadbeat dad angle, ham-fisted aping of Donnerverse Supes. Grade: moderate failure.

7. MAN OF STEEL . Pros: most visually dynamic portrayal of the Superverse ever. Best fight scenes. Cons: Pa Kent. Neck-snap to learn neck-snaps are bad. Devisive AF to audiences. Grade: Moderate success.

8. BATMAN V. SUPERMAN - DAWN OF JUSTICE. Pros: uh, best Lois & Clark cinematic interaction. Clark clearly most heroic of these Trinity. Cons: literally everything else, basically guest star in his own sequel. Grade: moderate failure.

9. JUSTICE LEAGUE. Pros: most badass cinematic Supes ever. Bright and hopeful and powerful AF in battle. Cons: rest of movie sucked. Shrek-mouth. Grade: Big Failure.

Yup, Supes is way more hit or miss at the movies.

[marhawkman]

I would say that that the pro on 4 was that Nuclear Man was an interesting villain. He's not out to rule the world like Zod or Lex, he just wants to get the girl. For added hilarity the girl was one of Lois's reporter rivals.

[Kuwagaton]

LOL a pro for Superman III is having a better story than II. I mean we are comparing an irrevocable plot twist being revoked to Richard Pryor skiing off a roof, but still.

[marhawkman]

It's odd to think about, but Superman 2 could have had twice the fluff filling the voids scattered about. Part of what made it epic though was you waiting for action to happen.

[Ascended]

That scene is, for my money, the best Superman scene in any Superman media. Hands down. Interestingly enough, I think it actually was pulled from Abrams Flyby script.

Which one, the "catches a plane" scene or the "bullet bounces off eyeball" one?

I'm a huge fan of both, myself. I rate those scenes up there with the best moments in Super-cinema, right alongside the "first flight" moment in MoS and that super-cheesy but super-enjoyable moment in Superman I where he catches the guy climbing the building. "Something wrong with the elevator?" Ha, such a perfect Superman line! Makes me smile every time I see it.

[Yoda]

Which one, the "catches a plane" scene or the "bullet bounces off eyeball" one?

I'm a huge fan of both, myself. I rate those scenes up there with the best moments in Super-cinema, right alongside the "first flight" moment in MoS and that super-cheesy but super-enjoyable moment in Superman I where he catches the guy climbing the building. "Something wrong with the elevator?" Ha, such a perfect Superman line! Makes me smile every time I see it.

The plane rescue scene. I think in Flyby it was Air Force One though.

[JAK]

Totally agreed. I think a Superman game needs a degree of variety that you rarely, if ever, see from a game. I think if you go at a Super-game with the mindset of "this has to be X genre" you're already doomed to fail. I think a good Superman game would be a little bit of everything. Which would be a crazy big challenge for developers, but we've got the technology now to actually make it possible, which we couldn't say until maybe ten years or so ago.

Another thought I had for a Super-game would be to model it somewhat after the old Fleischer cartoons and Morrison's Action, fused with some Elder Scrolls "build your character your way" approach. Like, start off at Golden Age power, and as you level you have different talent trees with different abilities you can open up. Maybe you want to ignore the physical talents and make your guy all about super-senses. Maybe you spend your time on top of the biggest building in the city, using your senses to find and pin-point objectives, and then using heat vision to snipe the bad guy. Or maybe you ignore the Flight talent but focus a lot on Strength and Speed. Or focus on everything and go the "well rounded" approach. Not really selling the pure Superman experience, but if nothing else, something like this would improve a game's re-play rating.

Speaking of Fleischer/Morrison... that gave me the thought that maybe a game in the indie style would be good. It wouldn't have the immediate "epic-ness" of, say, an "Arkham" game, but it could be really unique - some of those games don't fit tightly into any particular genre, either. It might be just the outside/fresh approach Superman needs.

Though I'm probably the odd man out - I even (mostly) enjoyed the Superman game for the Genesis, lol. (the one before "Death and Return")

[DochaDocha]

I used to joke that an easy way to introduce Superman into a good game was to put a mode at the end of the first two Arkham games where you can re-skin Batman as Superman, and maybe add features like bullet time. While I wasn't really serious, Lego Batman 2 essentially does this. You can use Superman to play levels where originally you had to play as Batman, and the game is so much easier and not necessarily unenjoyable because many of the levels are now trivial easy. Whereas Batman needed a special suit to do functions X, Y, and Z, often times vanilla Superman can do them all with no need for upgrades, and he does it faster, takes no damage, and can fly. There is something to putting a juxtaposition of "Here's how the level plays out as a normal human, and now here's how it plays if you're Superman," that adds a certain fun factor that I don't readily dismiss. There's a reason why Game Genie commercials used to say "Jump higher, punch harder, live forever."

[stargazer01]

Which one, the "catches a plane" scene or the "bullet bounces off eyeball" one?

I'm a huge fan of both, myself. I rate those scenes up there with the best moments in Super-cinema, right alongside the "first flight" moment in MoS and that super-cheesy but super-enjoyable moment in Superman I where he catches the guy climbing the building. "Something wrong with the elevator?" Ha, such a perfect Superman line! Makes me smile every time I see it.

I agree with all you said. Returns may be slow and boring to many, but to me is an interesting film that takes Superman seriously (much like MOS and to a less degree BvS). Returns has lots of scenes I enjoy for its substance, and I also think it's a beautifully shot film (granted a few scenes feel like it was shot in a studio not a real place), so I really disagree that it was filmed poorly (Returns also has a great musical score, imo). That scene when Superman is devastated to hear Lois never loved him and goes to the sky to concentrate in his work is fantastic, IMO. Also when he takes Lois flying and tells her he hears the cries of the world. I enjoy that stuff too not just the fun and joyful moments in Superman stories. Sure, Returns and MOS were still too melancholy for a Superman movie, IMO.

Regarding the Reeve line in STM, I loved it! That's what I mean when I say that Superman has with witty side and that makes him badass and funny and gives him more of a personality and charisma. It's something the Snyder Superman mostly lacked, unfortunately because he was more interested in showing the tragedy of Superman..

[Masterff]

7. Music (songs about Superman & scores)

2 AWESOME SONGS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx_-Nn3bmdY
Superman by Five for fighting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXjXKT98esw
Daughtry-waiting for Superman

[Masterff]

If the question made no sense, then we wouldn't have 6 pages of coherent discussion about it. Which we do.

8. BATMAN V. SUPERMAN - DAWN OF JUSTICE. Pros: uh, best Lois & Clark cinematic interaction. Clark clearly most heroic of these Trinity. Cons: literally everything else, basically guest star in his own sequel. Grade: moderate failure.

Yup, Supes is way more hit or miss at the movies.

I really LOVED some Parts of Batman vs Superman...
The ENTRANCES of Superman and Batman were AWESOME...I LOVED the part when Superman stopped the missile and the part where Superman slammed the villain who was holding the gun at Lois head trough the wall.

It was also awesome how Batman saved Martha.

[DCStu]

In response to the question that opened this thread - Superman is a progressive character who has a long journey. A TV show is better suited to giving us a faithful version of Superman, as opposed to trying to cram 80+ years of history into a two hour movie.
I think to be completely honest only one Superman movie has 100% worked and that's the 78 Donner/Reeve film.
Putting post crisis Supes into a film has met with varying degrees of success. But on TV that stuff can run and run.

[Fergus]

I don't agree. Superman has had a great deal of success on both screens.

[marhawkman]

I don't agree. Superman has had a great deal of success on both screens.

Well, it's a question of which is better and why.

[manwhohaseverything]

Well, it's a question of which is better and why.

Nothing beats max fleischer cartoons for me. It is the best bar none.