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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Default Examples of creators "annexing" other parts of the Marvel lore?

    The Marvel Universe is vast, and it usually can be divided into specific areas. It gets really gray, however, when creators decide to annex other parts of the lore into their run, and in some cases it completely transplants over. This often happens when they aren't being used in the main part, so they decide to integrate them in their own stories. It's also prominent when the creator worked on them in the past in a different title, so they're essentially revisiting it.

    Examples:
    • Frank Miller took Kingpin, a lesser Spidey rogue, and made him the big villain to Daredevil. His roles antagonizing Spider-Man after this are patterned after Miller's take on Fisk. Nowadays, Kingpin almost exclusively menaces Daredevil, and whenever he causes trouble for Spidey, it's as a mastermind role rather than a direct combatant (I think after Back in Black no one could take Kingpin against Spidey seriously again).
    • Chris Claremont rolled in numerous, often obscure, elements of the MU lore into the X-Men mythos, and are now considered more X-Men than General MU. It's funny considering how "closed-off" from the MU the X-Men supposedly are according to some. This includes Mystique and Deathbird as X-Men villains (originating from Ms. Marvel), Sabretooth as Wolverine's nemesis (originating from Iron Fist), the Captain Britain mythology (originally its own thing), Mojoworld alongside Longshot, Spiral and Mojo (a self-contained miniseries not tied to the X-Men), Adamantium (debuted in Avengers as the metal Ultron as made of), Ka-Zar and the Savage Land (Golden Age), Lady Deathstrike becoming Wolverine's other nemesis (originated from Daredevil), Madame Hydra as a villain the X-Men and New Mutants (originating as a Captain America villain), and Wolverine himself having debuted as a villain in The Incredible Hulk.
    • In the Ultimate Marvel Universe, there's Kitty Pryde becoming a Spider-Man supporting character (which stems from Brian Michael Bendis' not-so-subtle obsession with her), getting most of her character development there as opposed to in the X-Men comics. In the main universe, the two barely know each other.

    What other notable examples are there?

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    The biggest one is Jack Kirby having Human Torch run into Namor, now a hobo in the Bowery, in Fantastic Four #3.

    That basically put the Golden Age Timely era in direct continuity with 616 and opened up the universe. That later allowed them to bring back Captain America and so on.

  3. #3
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    Wasn’t Shuma-Gorath adopted by Doctor Strange back when the Conan license was gone?

  4. #4
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The biggest one is Jack Kirby having Human Torch run into Namor, now a hobo in the Bowery, in Fantastic Four #3.

    That basically put the Golden Age Timely era in direct continuity with 616 and opened up the universe. That later allowed them to bring back Captain America and so on.
    Oh yeah, that's actually pretty good!

    Some more examples:
    • Goldballs was introduced in Brian Michael Bendis' X-Men run, and became a supporting character to Miles Morales after he immigrated to 616.
    • Donny Cates' Venom run includes multiple Ultimate Marvel elements, including Miles Morales and The Maker. It also ties the Symbiotes, and the ruler Knull, into the cosmic end of Marvel including Asgard and the Silver Surfer.
    • Ben Reilly: The Scarlet Spider dug back the oft-forgotten Slingers (well, three of them considering Hornet is dead) as an enemy-turned-ally of the titular character.
    • Jason Aaron's Thor run established the Phoenix (a key X-Men entity) as having a history with Asgard. Also, there was the Shi'ar/Asgard war -- the former also originating from X-Men.
    • John Jameson was created as part of the Spider-Man lore during the Lee-Ditko run, but eventually migrated over to the Captain America titles where he became a supporting character to Steve Rogers, acting as his pilot.
    • Ant-Man (Scott Lang) was created to take on the Ant-Man legacy after Hank Pym abandoned it, and was a supporting character to Iron Man and the Avengers, before being transplanted to the Fantastic Four as their mechanic, and eventually became an Avenger himself before he died (but got better).
    • Cloak & Dagger debuted in an issue of Spectacular Spider-Man before spinning out on their own, though still connected to Spidey loosely. They've also had ties to the X-Men, having numerous adventures alongside mutant characters in their Mutant Misadventures of Cloak and Dagger series, and have served as X-Men themselves. Fun fact: They're not actually mutants.
    • The Hand is a key part of the Daredevil mythos but also has ties to X-Men, particularly Wolverine and Psylocke. They've also caused trouble for Spider-Man, Kaine Parker, the New Warriors, and the Avengers.
    • Sandman was created to be Spider-Man villain, but quickly became a Fantastic Four villain as part of the Frightful Four, as well an occasional Hulk villain. He then went legit for a good 20 years, and in the '90s had a tenure as an Avenger. He only became bad again because of mind control by the Wizard.

  5. #5
    Incredible Member Force de Phenix's Avatar
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    The Kree were plugged into the inhumans background afterwards.

  6. #6
    Boisterously Confused
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    I really don't think of it as annexing as Marvel was pretty highly interconnected from its beginning. Electro, for example, was used as a Daredevil antagonist pretty early in the latter's title (in a story featuring an FF cameo). I'd say it's the parts of Marvel lore that remain isolated in one pocket of the Marvel Universe, like Baron Mordo, that are the unusual ones.

  7. #7
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I really don't think of it as annexing as Marvel was pretty highly interconnected from its beginning. Electro, for example, was used as a Daredevil antagonist pretty early in the latter's title (in a story featuring an FF cameo).
    It was for lack of a better term, basically "annexing" meaning to use or "appropriate" different aspects of the lore from other titles into their own stories. Marvel, of course, has always been a very connected setting and DC actually had to "Marvelize" itself afterwards.

    It's just interesting to think about.

  8. #8
    Fantastic Member Doombot's Avatar
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    This kinda of stuff is what made Marvel great.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    It was for lack of a better term, basically "annexing" meaning to use or "appropriate" different aspects of the lore from other titles into their own stories. Marvel, of course, has always been a very connected setting and DC actually had to "Marvelize" itself afterwards.

    It's just interesting to think about.
    It is. The reasons have been discussed on other threads, but it's a fun topic. Personally, I see 3 main ones:
    1. A small group was creating all the content, and it was easier to recycle villains than create new ones
    2. Lee understood the value of using successful property references to promote new properties
    3. It was part of Marvel's deliberate strategy to differentiate from DC by creating a richer, unified shared world
    It was very cool for it's time. My personal early fave was Loki attempting to manipulate Dr. Strange. My all time fave was The Avengers tangling with The X-Men's Sentinels.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    • Chris Claremont rolled in numerous, often obscure, elements of the MU lore into the X-Men mythos, and are now considered more X-Men than General MU. It's funny considering how "closed-off" from the MU the X-Men supposedly are according to some. This includes Ka-Zar and the Savage Land (Golden Age),
    There was a Ka-Zar in the golden age, but it wasn't the same character as the current Ka-Zar (Kevin Plunder). (Just like the Golden Age Angel has nothing to do with the X-Men's Angel.) The Marvel Age Ka-Zar actually first appeared in X-Men #10.
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  11. #11
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy Hausler View Post
    There was a Ka-Zar in the golden age, but it wasn't the same character as the current Ka-Zar (Kevin Plunder). (Just like the Golden Age Angel has nothing to do with the X-Men's Angel.) The Marvel Age Ka-Zar actually first appeared in X-Men #10.
    Thanks for pointing that out. However, it still remains the the Savage Land was introduced in the Golden Age before becoming a key element of the X-Men mythos. To be fair, it wasn't Claremont who did that, though he of course continued it.

  12. #12
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    Lee and Kirby’s last Fantastic Four creation was Franklin’s nanny, the witch Agatha Harkness, but Steve Englehart used her for his Avengers run to teach the Scarlet Witch real magic, and she wound up being Wanda’s sidekick in her solo series.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Thanks for pointing that out. However, it still remains the the Savage Land was introduced in the Golden Age before becoming a key element of the X-Men mythos. To be fair, it wasn't Claremont who did that, though he of course continued it.
    That seems unclear. I haven't read the originals, but Don Markham was pretty thorough with his research, and tagged Golden Age Ka-Zar as dwelling in Equatorial Africa. Alternatively, Wikipedia has some form of The Savage Land as a 1941 Simon and Kirby creation in Marvel Mystery Comics. The GA Ka-Zar was appearing in MMC, but it's unclear if the first Savage Land appearance was part of a Ka-Zar story.

  14. #14
    Incredible Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Some more X-Men examples:
    • S.W.O.R.D. was introduced in Astonishing X-Men as the space-based division of S.H.I.E.L.D., which leans more heavily to General MU and Avengers. The organization played prominently in modern X-Men stories compared to other parts of the MU.
    • Deathlok for a long time was it's own unique thing on the side of Marvel, but come the '10s it's transplanted to the X-Men lore with Deathlok Prime being a teacher at the Jean Grey School and a member of the X-Force.
    • Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were founding members of the Brotherhood, but quickly joined the Avengers and turned a new leaf. They were notable for most of their history for being mutants that had minimal involvement with the mutant side of the MU, until a certain retcon...
    • Firestar debuted in an X-Men comic as a Hellion, established as a mutant, and her early appearances were part of the X-Men stories, but she quickly transplanted into Spider-Man's corner and joined the New Warriors (Claremont apparently didn't much care to work with her). She later became an Avenger. It wasn't until the '10s where she joined the X-Men, even then only briefly. Of course, her real debut was in the Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends animated series, so her migrating to the Spider-Man comics was an easy fit.


    Also:
    • Jonathan Hickman's Avengers was basically just a continuation of his Fantastic Four run. It featured many, many elements from the Fantastic Four such as the team themselves being prominent allies, Doctor Doom, Namor, the Inhumans, and so on, with Doom himself being the ultimate big bad. It also featured many cosmic elements, and drew from places as diverse as Spider-Man, General MU, the Mutant side of Marvel, into one epic. About midway through, Hickman basically stopped pretending it was a continuation and the Avengers took a backseat to the chess match between Reed and Doom.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    ...Deathlok for a long time was it's own unique thing on the side of Marvel, but come the '10s it's transplanted to the X-Men lore with Deathlok Prime being a teacher at the Jean Grey School and a member of the X-Force...
    The first entry of Deathlok into the main MU that I remember was back in the 1980s, as part of Marvel Two-in-One's Project Pegasus Saga. Later in the 1980s, he turned up in the pages of Captain America.
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