View Poll Results: Batman should be drawn...

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  • sleek and svelte

    33 51.56%
  • bulky and muscular

    31 48.44%
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  1. #61
    Spectacular Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC Classics View Post
    Yeah comic book colors were originally very limited and the blue on Batman's costume and Superman's hair, etc. was originally intended to represent light reflecting on a black surface, not literately blue hair and a blue Batsuit, that became traditional, but it looked like they had blue hair and it looked like a blue Batsuit.
    […]
    I think the master on the technique of the use of the blue was John Buscema: he inked almost all the black object, leaving only few white zones, so no one could misunderstood it was an actually black surface with some reflection of light. But John Buscema is John Buscema and there is a reason he was nicknamed the "Michelangelo of the comics".

    9788891229960.jpg
    «Let me get this straight: you kink that your client, […], is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands and your plan is to blackmail this person? Good luck.»

    «Joker is a violent and inartistic movie, not like that masterpiece of A Clockwork Orange.» Yes, some critic of the AMPAS was able to say that.

    «What weight 6 ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?» «A sparrow with a machine gun!» from "Batman'66 the movie"

  2. #62
    Winged Freak Terrorizes DC Classics's Avatar
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    Yeah John Buscema is one of the greats. Strong inking I think clearly can help make it more obvious in comics what was meant to be black, although any blue coloring [or gray] still can cause some stubborn folks to insist that the subject is blue [or gray] and claim the blacks are just silhouetted shadowing. A '90s Batman example and comparison is Jerry Ordway inked almost all the blacks in the black armored Batsuit for his depiction that was originally from the Batman: The Official Comic Adaptation (1989) and revised with the Batman Returns Batsuit modifications in the DC Comics Batman Returns Style Guide (1991), and Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez inked less of the blacks in his depiction for the same Style Guide with Garcia-Lopez's depiction that was colored gray representing the light reflecting on what is suppose to be the same black armored Batsuit that's in Ordway's depiction and not a gray Batsuit.
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    Last edited by DC Classics; 12-07-2019 at 09:00 PM.

  3. #63
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    They are different, because they engage your imagination in very different ways. Plot armour is a figurative kind of thing--you have to think about it as a convention of fiction, so you're using a different thought process when you're into a story. Of course, this could take you out of the story, but hopefully you can suspend your disbelief while you're in the story. Real armour is a literal kind of thing--it's providing a serviceable reason why the character survives and it avoids the suspension of disbelief question by lampshading some explanation for you. The problem with real armour is it lessens the sense of jeopardy. When you're into a story, while you might intellectually know that the characters are bound to survive, another part of your brain understands that, when characters are exposed to attack, they can get hurt (maybe die) if one of those bullets hits them--but if you know they have protection against bullets, you're not bothered.

    This seems to be where the rubber hits the road with readers. Some need everything to have a realistic explanation, while others can suspend their disbelief and just go with the story. For me, the only time I was annoyed by plot armour was when I was in my teens. As a kid, I didn't care and now as an adult I understand the reason for it and I can laugh at it and not stress over it. But for some folks, these kinds of conventions in fiction drive them up the proverbial wall.
    Disagree - literal armor doesn't do that much to lesson peril. After all, Batman has to deal with armor piercing rounds, sharpshooters who can aim for the vulnerable spots in his armor, villains who use explosives, acids, poisons, chemical weapons, and other things that his armor can't protect against. If the main reason for fabric over armor is the sense of jeopardy, it's a pretty weak reason. Batman can be hurt a thousand ways even with armor. So for me the big difference is merely one of visuals - I just like the armor look more.

  4. #64
    Amazing Member Valentis's Avatar
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    Christian Bale was sleek and svelte. Ben Affleck was bulky and muscular. I preferred Bale's appearance despite Ben been a more convincing fighter.

  5. #65
    Spectacular Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    I agree with you: Bale was the best compromise among be svelte or bulky.

    For comparison according to The Economist Bruce Wayne should be 1,88 metres high and 95 kilos weight (1,98 cm/kg), Adam West was 1,88 metres high and 91 kilos weight (2,07 cm/kg), Bale was 1,83 metres high and 82 kilos weight (2,23 cm/kg), Affleck was 1,93 metres high and 98 kilos weight (1,97 cm/kg). But in my opinion the data are wrong because 82 kilos is the Bale's target weight and he gained weight for Batman (about 10/15 kilos if I remember well) and I think also the Affleck's weight is wrong because this is Affleck when he was Bruce Wayne:

    Ben-affleck-Batman-Muscoli-Fisico.jpg

    and this was Mike Tyson when he was a professional boxer:

    mike-tyson.jpg

    If Tyson at that time was 1,78 metres high and 109 kilos weight, Affleck can't be only 98 kilos: they have almost the same physiques.
    Last edited by Gotham citizen; 12-08-2019 at 07:43 AM.
    «Let me get this straight: you kink that your client, […], is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands and your plan is to blackmail this person? Good luck.»

    «Joker is a violent and inartistic movie, not like that masterpiece of A Clockwork Orange.» Yes, some critic of the AMPAS was able to say that.

    «What weight 6 ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?» «A sparrow with a machine gun!» from "Batman'66 the movie"

  6. #66
    Winged Freak Terrorizes DC Classics's Avatar
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    Bill Finger and Bob Kane originally based Batman physically on 5'9" Douglas Fairbanks Sr. and there is a history of height and weight listing inconsistencies in Batman comic books by DC with interchangeable writers, artists and editors. In Detective Comics #141 (1948) [by an uncredited unknown writer, edited by Jack Schiff] the height was first listed as 6'1" tall and weight at 185 pounds. In World's Finest Comics #51 (1951) written by David Vern Batman's height listing was changed to 6 foot tall and his weight at 185 pounds and in Who's Who #2 (1985) written by Len Wein and Robert Greenberger the Batman height listing changed again to 6'2" and weight at 210 pounds. An in-story explanation for those inconsistencies could be that the public do not know Batman's true height and weight, so they are just rumors and guesses of his height and weight, if to people in Gotham, Batman is an eerie being of mystery, rumored by the superstitious to be "a giant bat."

    Affleck's trainer Walter Norton explained, "We wanted him to look like a thick MMA heavyweight puncher. This is a Bruce Wayne who’s been lifting for 20 years, hitting that heavyweight bag, and working out every day in the manor. I’ll just say that if you lined up all the Batmans before Ben and stood them next to each other, they’re not 6’4”, and they don’t weigh 225 pounds."
    https://www.mensjournal.com/health-f...erman-w199882/

    Yet, Bale was called "Fatman" by the Batman Begins crew because, after making The Machinist where he was anorexically skinny, he stuffed himself with food and got huge and chunky bulky for Batman Begins. Nolan asked, "'Could you get a little leaner now?'" So he had to loose weight and he's noticeably leaner in The Dark Knight and Rises. Bale said, "Chris [Nolan] was nice about it, but there were some others, like some English guys in the crew who I'd worked with before who weren't so gentle. They said 'Hey Chris, what film are we making here? Fatman?'"
    https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment...16-gdliq0.html

    Michael Keaton explained in Comics Scene #9 (1989), "Let's not forget about the comments about me being 'weak-chinned and a wimp.' You name it, I heard it... All the time I was training, I had to keep in mind that I had to maintain a certain weight. Too much weight would have made it impossible for me to get into the Bat-suit... I did as much of the stunts that I could because it kept me from getting bored. I did quite a bit of the cable stuff. But there where certain things that I just couldn't do and it might have ended the picture much earlier if I had tried."
    http://www.1989batman.com/2014/08/vi...ics-scene.html
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    Last edited by DC Classics; 12-08-2019 at 10:11 AM.

  7. #67
    Spectacular Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Thank you, your comment are always interesting.
    I was talking about heights and weights only to give us an unambiguous basis for comparison, because everyone of us has his own idea of svelte or bulky body, but your post has rightly prevent the risk we start to discuss if Bruce Wayne should be 1,83 or 1,88 metres hight.
    «Let me get this straight: you kink that your client, […], is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands and your plan is to blackmail this person? Good luck.»

    «Joker is a violent and inartistic movie, not like that masterpiece of A Clockwork Orange.» Yes, some critic of the AMPAS was able to say that.

    «What weight 6 ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?» «A sparrow with a machine gun!» from "Batman'66 the movie"

  8. #68
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    I picture him as a tall thick guy.

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    I browsed "svelte" and google gave me twinks. Even young he should be Neal Adams thick.

  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Repost from the other thread - https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4039166

    Emphasis an athlete who has the physical prowess of Douglas Fairbanks.
    The ideal is not a thick, bulked-up muscle bound tank.
    Check the Fairbanks Zorro video; the lean, speed, agility, acrobatics, physical prowess, doing free-running and parkour moves before it had a name.
    According to his creators, that is the template when in his prime.:
    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    Bill Finger - "Batman was a combination of Douglas Fairbanks [who played Zorro] and Sherlock Holmes."

    Bill Finger- "My idea was to have Batman be a combination of Douglas Fairbanks [Zorro], Sherlock Holmes, The Shadow, and Doc Savage as well."

    Bob Kane -"Zorro’s use of a mask to conceal his identity as Don Diego gave me the idea of giving Batman a secret identity…Bruce Wayne would be a man of means who put on a façade of being effete. Zorro rode a black horse called Tornado and would enter a cave and exit from a grandfather clock in the living room. The bat-cave was inspired by this cave in Zorro. I didn't want Batman to be a Superhero with superpowers…So I made Batman an ordinary human being; he is just an athlete who has the physical prowess of Douglas Fairbanks, Sr., who was my all-time favorite hero in the movies.”


    Alter Ego (Roy Thomas) - Bill maintained (well into the 1960’s) a file of Douglas Fairbanks Sr. photo stills. He showed me the file and said that he would attach selected photos to finished scripts for Bob [Kane] and his assistants to use as models. I recognized pose after pose. The stills I saw (and had never seen before that date) were the familiar swinging poses that characterized the Acro-Batman





    Last edited by Güicho; 01-11-2020 at 11:50 AM.

  11. #71
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    I see him as stealthy and agile, so not bulky but definitely very toned and strong. Bale was fine IMO.

    This reminds me of all of the comments I came across a while back about the Batwoman casting - when lots of people wanted a bigger (more muscular) actress for the role. I admit, it would be nice if the actress could manage to get a bit more toned later on, but this season is understandable because of the health problems meaning she likely couldn't bulk-up. Plus, we rarely see her undressed enough to see her musculature anyway, so it doesn't matter all that much.

    I don't recall this type of conversation about musculature happening with Catwoman castings, or the Robins, but I suppose it must have. It definitely happened with Wonder Woman, Flash, and Superman though.

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