[Spoilers] Batman #83 preview and discussion.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I haad problems with this tbh, then again I never really have understood the umbrage the King haters have for him and his work or why they continue to subject themselves to it. I mean looking at this issue's comments it is clear they hate it but how many issues have they gone through with that level of hate and not stopped at all? I just don't get it, it's like if I subjected myself to watch the Batwoman CW series when i hated it from the start or watch Terminator Dark Fate over and over and over.

I don't want to break my run of Batman, only reason I'm picking it up.

[charliehustle415]

I haad problems with this tbh, then again I never really have understood the umbrage the King haters have for him and his work or why they continue to subject themselves to it. I mean looking at this issue's comments it is clear they hate it but how many issues have they gone through with that level of hate and not stopped at all? I just don't get it, it's like if I subjected myself to watch the Batwoman CW series when i hated it from the start or watch Terminator Dark Fate over and over and over.

See Slott's Spider-Man run; people swore up and down it was THE WORST EVER, yet they still read it.

I think honestly is that once a character takes hold, they take hold and you wanna see it to the end, and a lot of people are collectors and to leave something unfinished is not what a comicbook reader does

[Flash Gordon]

I haad problems with this tbh, then again I never really have understood the umbrage the King haters have for him and his work or why they continue to subject themselves to it. I mean looking at this issue's comments it is clear they hate it but how many issues have they gone through with that level of hate and not stopped at all? I just don't get it, it's like if I subjected myself to watch the Batwoman CW series when i hated it from the start or watch Terminator Dark Fate over and over and over.

I think a lot of it has to do with King usually being a writer worth reading for a lot of people. I loved Omega Men and Grayson. I loved I AM SUICIDE from this run. I kept thinking he'd pull this around, or that it is a statement on something that I'm not getting yet. I like to give writers I like a firm chance, always. This is just so, so bad though. Now it's almost like watching a car accident. It's horrifying and sad but I can't look away.

[gordonm]

The decompression in King's run is really making what should be powerful material like this a slog to get through.

[Astralabius]

I had some time to think about this issue. Is anyone else disturbed that Tom King keeps romanticizing suicide? I see people calling this issue beautiful, but I found it's message disturbing and not fitting for Alfred.

[Pohzee]

It's not really a suicide it's a sacrifice. Alfred didn't want to die. He said there are no good deaths. But he instead chose to live a good life. And that means not living as a pawn for evil.

The ending of this run hasn't exactly been great to me, but it really is bringing out some truly awful takes from detractors.

[Astralabius]

It's not really a suicide it's a sacrifice. Alfred didn't want to die. He said there are no good deaths. But he instead chose to live a good life. And that means not living as a pawn for evil.

The ending of this run hasn't exactly been great to me, but it really is bringing out some truly awful takes from detractors.

He literally says: "I will die here. I chose to die here".
And the line about living a good life was about Bruce, not himself.

[Pohzee]

Choosing to die isn't necessarily a suicide. Is taking a final stand over surrender ignoble?

Alfred's goal wasn't death. It was to bring Bruce back to the city. Doing so had the possibility of resulting in his death, but not necessarily a certainty. Placing certain values or ideals above your own life isn't suicidal.

[Blue22]

Wait maybe it's cuz I sat so much of this out but I'm confused. Wasn't Bruce coming back anyway? I thought this was all some elaborate plan that the whole family was in on.

[AnakinFlair]

Because he knows it doesn't count if he's puppeted, I think.

But he HAS to realize at this point that Bruce will never give up being Batman... it's just stupid.

I can´t believe this..

I was expecting Thomas between the 5-8 pages and he appeared in the last 2 pages..

WHAT A WASTE OF TIME. NOTHING HAPPENED.(We all knew that alfred was dead)

What pisses ME off is the next issue is apparently 'The Secret History of Thomas Wayne', which means we won't even get a resolution for this next issue!

See Slott's Spider-Man run; people swore up and down it was THE WORST EVER, yet they still read it.

I think honestly is that once a character takes hold, they take hold and you wanna see it to the end, and a lot of people are collectors and to leave something unfinished is not what a comicbook reader does

For me, it's both hoping that the writer will hear the complaints and course correct, or hoping the writer gets taken off of the book. That's how I felt about Percy's run on Green Arrow, but even I couldn't stick through Oliver becoming a werewolf.

[kilderkin]

It's not really a suicide it's a sacrifice. Alfred didn't want to die. He said there are no good deaths. But he instead chose to live a good life. And that means not living as a pawn for evil.

The ending of this run hasn't exactly been great to me, but it really is bringing out some truly awful takes from detractors.

Maybe, but there is much to detract here, this, imo is one of the most epically bad long runs in history

I don't just think it's bad, I think it's that bad

[Pohzee]

Maybe, but there is much to detract here, this, imo is one of the most epically bad long runs in history

I don't just think it's bad, I think it's that bad

There is so much there to rightfully criticize. Which is why I find it odd that so many grasp at straws and peddle conspiracies to criticize it.

[Batman Begins 2005]

There is so much there to rightfully criticize.Which is why I find it odd that so many grasp at straws and peddle conspiracies to criticize it.

Off the top of my head: The writing, dialogue, characters acting OOC, Bat/Cat referring to one another as that.

[Frontier]

For me, it's both hoping that the writer will hear the complaints and course correct, or hoping the writer gets taken off of the book. That's how I felt about Percy's run on Green Arrow, but even I couldn't stick through Oliver becoming a werewolf.

I'm glad I bowed out of Percy's original GA run .

[Astralabius]

Choosing to die isn't necessarily a suicide. Is taking a final stand over surrender ignoble?

Alfred's goal wasn't death. It was to bring Bruce back to the city. Doing so had the possibility of resulting in his death, but not necessarily a certainty. Placing certain values or ideals above your own life isn't suicidal.

Alfred knew Bruce had a plan and would come back. Are trying to tell me there was no way Bruce could have arranged to get Alfred out of there if Alfred had been honest? Would a few more days of waiting to take back Gotham make such a huge difference after Bruce's plan left Gotham under Bane's control for months anyway? King made Alfred choose a useless death here, not a noble sacrifice.

Edit: Also, may I remind you that it was suggested by Alfred himself that he should be killed if a member of the bats entered Gotham, because he didn't want them to come to the city. Which is pretty stupid if you consider that the family members, including Alfred, knew all along what Bruce had planned and that of course they would take back Gotham. None of this was necessary. None of this was smart. None of this was heroic.