Marauders #2 Spoilery Review and Discussion - The Red Coronation

[JKtheMac]

I'm still trying to make sense of why Kitty would ever take the job of red queen. Only thing that make sense if it was undercover job but there is no sign of that

I am not sure you are going to enjoy this new era. These things are going to be the norm. The angst ridden era is finally over. We no longer need five pages of a character wrestling with their conscience then making a decision, only for the next writer to rehash it all over again because of the fear that fans will criticise them for not taking into account ‘feelings’.

So my best advice. Stop worrying about it and enjoy the story, and if you can’t, then don’t read it.

[Anchorsify]

I am not sure you are going to enjoy this new era. These things are going to be the norm. The angst ridden era is finally over. We no longer need five pages of a character wrestling with their conscience then making a decision, only for the next writer to rehash it all over again because of the fear that fans will criticise them for not taking into account ‘feelings’.

So my best advice. Stop worrying about it and enjoy the story, and if you can’t, then don’t read it.

I don’t think it is a lack of angst that is the issue. It’s a lack of logical character motivation and questioning. I don’t think anyone is asking for more angst quite yet—they are asking why everyone is going along with everything and seemingly taking it all at face value.

The major, logical criticism from HOXPOX is how no one seemed to really question Xavier/magneto/Moira and just went with it.. and that is still true. The book people hoped was going to ask more questions didn’t ask a single one, frankly (fallen angels, given it was solicited about those who choose not to live on krakoa).

That’s more espionage and thriller vibes than angst, and I don’t really fault anyone for wanting more of that. A human moment of “kitty why are you taking orders from Emma and getting finger tattoos and doing bad cosplay outfits?” Is a valid question for storm or Bobby or frankly anyone to ask her. But they probably won’t.

[Frobisher]

Yeah, Kitty needs a few lessons in consent.

Mostly enjoy this book but I do wish the colourist would learn to colour non-white-people. Storm just has a light tan and Gateway looks like Santa Claus! It's a sin.

Also, we're cool with the X-Men stealing and selling random boats now? What a bunch of jerks.

They’re not the X-Men - they’re pirates.

[JKtheMac]

I don’t think it is a lack of angst that is the issue. It’s a lack of logical character motivation and questioning. I don’t think anyone is asking for more angst quite yet—they are asking why everyone is going along with everything and seemingly taking it all at face value.

Last issue went out of its way to give her a reason to do what she has chosen to do. Just because you don’t personally approve doesn’t mean this is ‘wrong’.

The major, logical criticism from HOXPOX is how no one seemed to really question Xavier/magneto/Moira and just went with it.. and that is still true.

The major criticism of HoXPoX has been how great it was. No idea what you have been reading. Perhaps you haven’t been reading HoXPoX because for starters nobody apart form Xavier and Erik even seem to know that Moira is alive, and we have been shown why Charles was followed. Propaganda with The Five and nation building rhetoric. This is a little like saying ‘so everyone in Thirteen Colonies just went along with revolution and formed an idealistic state based on a religious calling? That’s not realistic.’ You are simplifying a situation which hasn’t been fully explored yet.

The book people hoped was going to ask more questions didn’t ask a single one, frankly (fallen angels, given it was solicited about those who choose not to live on krakoa).

By ‘people’ you clearly mean you and those who agree with you.

That’s more espionage and thriller vibes than angst, and I don’t really fault anyone for wanting more of that. A human moment of “kitty why are you taking orders from Emma and getting finger tattoos and doing bad cosplay outfits?” Is a valid question for storm or Bobby or frankly anyone to ask her. But they probably won’t.

Maybe we will get to that, but until the last splash page the only “orders” she has taken have been based on her own whims and for the good of mutant children. Besides some of us would do whatever Emma wanted.

[Anchorsify]

Not sure why you responded so hostile.

Last issue went out of its way to give her a reason to do what she has chosen to do. Just because you don’t personally approve doesn’t mean this is ‘wrong’.

It gave kitty a reason to associate with Emma in the context of helping mutants who needed it—nothing has explained the excessive drinking and partying and finger tattoos and larger, drastic change of character (that doesn’t fit in with the original theme of growing up.. none of which the above actions support).

The major criticism of HoXPoX has been how great it was. No idea what you have been reading. Perhaps you haven’t been reading HoXPoX because for starters nobody apart form Xavier and Erik even seem to know that Moira is alive, and we have been shown why Charles was followed. Propaganda with The Five and nation building rhetoric. This is a little like saying ‘so everyone in Thirteen Colonies just went along with revolution and formed an idealistic state based on a religious calling? That’s not realistic.’ You are simplifying a situation which hasn’t been fully explored yet.

I realize you’re joking but mentions of the cult-like actions and the lack of questioning has been brought up on these boards before. If you missed it, that’s fine, but there’s definitely been criticism and questioning of the lack thereof from characters that aren’t Charles/Magneto/Moira.

I’m not simplifying. I am stating a concern that has yet to be addressed that becomes a more noticeable oddity the longer it goes on without mention. Asking for more detail on an issue is the opposite of simplification.

By ‘people’ you clearly mean you and those who agree with you.

That is how that word works whenever used in such contexts, yes.

Maybe we will get to that, but until the last splash page the only “orders” she has taken have been based on her own whims and for the good of mutant children. Besides some of us would do whatever Emma wanted.

That is incorrect. She skuttled Batroc’s ship based on Emma’s orders, not on a whim or for mutant children—by her own words she is just doing it to spite Shaw, as the mutant drugs were being delivered by someone else entirely. She was there on Emma’s orders to send a message to Shaw.

And while I’m sure there’s plenty of people Emma doesn’t need telepathy to mind control, Kitty has always been one of the most suspicious and mindful of Emma’s actions and we’ve seen none of that so far.

[JKtheMac]

Not sure why you responded so hostile.

I'm sorry. I wasn't thinking hostile thoughts. Peace.

[JKtheMac]

I’m not simplifying. I am stating a concern that has yet to be addressed that becomes a more noticeable oddity the longer it goes on without mention. Asking for more detail on an issue is the opposite of simplification.

Asking for something that is not coming because the writing team have decided not to is clearly just wishing for something we won't get.

There has been a big cultural change and these stories spin out of that. That is how it is now. Hickman likes to time jump and not get bogged down with the intervening period. We are supposed to come to our own conclusions. Think of it as the beginning of a new novel. The backstory is often only given through context and indirect exposition. That is a style choice. We all have to learn what is happening as we go along. He is not spoon feeding us and it has freed up the writers to just tell their stories and have fun with it.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Asking for something that is not coming because the writing team have decided not to is clearly just wishing for something we won't get.

There has been a big cultural change and these stories spin out of that. That is how it is now. Hickman likes to time jump and not get bogged down with the intervening period. We are supposed to come to our own conclusions. Think of it as the beginning of a new novel. The backstory is often only given through context and indirect exposition. That is a style choice. We all have to learn what is happening as we go along. He is not spoon feeding us and it has freed up the writers to just tell their stories and have fun with it.

It's not so audacious to want even a sense of clarification, especially in sequential media.

The key difference here is the sequential aspect; even through time-jumps, writers often give even just one sentence to state where the characters are and what their motivation is--we've seen this from Xavier and Magneto, but not from other characters and why they would put their trust so fully in Xavier. Keep in mind, this guy has a long history of manipulation--Scott especially should be at least questioning reasoning a bit further beyond the idea of the 'mutant cause.' It's not spoon-feeding, it's reconciling a disconnect between characterisation, i.e, how Hickman thinks these characters should be vs how they've previously been portrayed.

[Killerbee911]

I don’t think it is a lack of angst that is the issue. It’s a lack of logical character motivation and questioning. I don’t think anyone is asking for more angst quite yet—they are asking why everyone is going along with everything and seemingly taking it all at face value.

The major, logical criticism from HOXPOX is how no one seemed to really question Xavier/magneto/Moira and just went with it.. and that is still true. The book people hoped was going to ask more questions didn’t ask a single one, frankly (fallen angels, given it was solicited about those who choose not to live on krakoa).
.

That book never advertised itself as that, It is was really people who are displease at the current run latching on the hope that something sinister is going on and this would be place where the people who are disgruntled at the status quo would show up. While Fallen angel was just about people who are uncomfortable with paradise not because it is evil but because some people just don't fit in an Utopia. Fallen Angels was never meant to be the disgruntled group hated the status quo that was a forum creation. Fallen Angels wasn't never to answer those questions and it is not real hard to see why people are going along with it when look at from perspective that nothing really looks fishy about Krakoa to people in the world.

[jwatson]

Loved it 9/10.

I don't hold grudges with past stories or go into stories with bad tastes from previous ones unless it's the same creative team so I'm thoroughly just enjoying this. My fave Dawn of x book. *Disappears*

[jwatson]

oh and this colorist needs to get it together. Gateway looked straight up white and the light don't completely change the color of black/brown skin to make a 5 shades lighter.

Though in his slight defense Loli draws a lot of faces that look the same/similar. Not a lot of variation.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I don’t think it is a lack of angst that is the issue. It’s a lack of logical character motivation and questioning. I don’t think anyone is asking for more angst quite yet—they are asking why everyone is going along with everything and seemingly taking it all at face value.

The major, logical criticism from HOXPOX is how no one seemed to really question Xavier/magneto/Moira and just went with it.. and that is still true. The book people hoped was going to ask more questions didn’t ask a single one, frankly (fallen angels, given it was solicited about those who choose not to live on krakoa).

That’s more espionage and thriller vibes than angst, and I don’t really fault anyone for wanting more of that. A human moment of “kitty why are you taking orders from Emma and getting finger tattoos and doing bad cosplay outfits?” Is a valid question for storm or Bobby or frankly anyone to ask her. But they probably won’t.

Duggan has already said Storm/Iceman will become alarmed by "Kate"s behavior as the book continues.

RE: broader point about the new status quo I agree with you. It feels jarring abrupt and like an AU still overall. Needs more skepticism/questioning for sure. Again, and I'm a person who ENJOYS "rehabilitation of villains" and all of that.

[Zelena]

It's not so audacious to want even a sense of clarification, especially in sequential media.

The key difference here is the sequential aspect; even through time-jumps, writers often give even just one sentence to state where the characters are and what their motivation is--we've seen this from Xavier and Magneto, but not from other characters and why they would put their trust so fully in Xavier. Keep in mind, this guy has a long history of manipulation--Scott especially should be at least questioning reasoning a bit further beyond the idea of the 'mutant cause.' It's not spoon-feeding, it's reconciling a disconnect between characterisation, i.e, how Hickman thinks these characters should be vs how they've previously been portrayed.

I don't think it's audacious to ask for explanations for radical changes, I just think you won't have any. I may be wrong but, apparently, writers have decided not to be bothered with continuity. They just use elements from the past to make their own creation. Now, do you like the characters the way they are depicted? Do you like the stories? Reading Kate's stories now and thinking about the way she was in the past with others writers, sure, it creates a dissonance.

[Supermutant2099]

I am not sure you are going to enjoy this new era. These things are going to be the norm. The angst ridden era is finally over. We no longer need five pages of a character wrestling with their conscience then making a decision, only for the next writer to rehash it all over again because of the fear that fans will criticise them for not taking into account ‘feelings’.

So my best advice. Stop worrying about it and enjoy the story, and if you can’t, then don’t read it.

WTF does that have to do with character working with people who tried to kidnap her at age 14? This not about angest era which was dumb. This about character drastically changing in bad ways and becoming the red queen. Which in context character history makes no sense beyond just kidnapping.

[The Quiet Councilor]

WTF does that have to do with character working with people who tried to kidnap her at age 14? This not about angest era which was dumb. This about character drastically changing in bad ways and becoming the red queen. Which in context character history makes no sense beyond just kidnapping.

If you’re all so consumed with continuity, you should recall Astonishing X-Men where Kitty confronted these issues. You should also consider Uncanny and New Mutants of the mid-80’s where Storm joined the Hellfire Club.

The current development isn’t without precedent. Some of you just don’t like it, and that’s ok. You don’t need flimsy justifications. You don’t need any justification.