Excalibur [02]: A Tower of Flowers SPOILERS

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Japanese is weird sometimes.

But what are the chances that this can be taken as an opportunity to kill off Shogo and free Jubes from the "aging" burden of being a mother (and worse, to fellow Krakoans, being the adoptive mother of a flatscan)?

Why should she lose her kid just because he's human? He's clearly got a magical nature. Any fellow krakoans who'd give her crap over it are garbage people. The story looks like its drawing a parallel between Jube's role as a mother to a human, which is nurturing and loving, and -A-'s role as a father to humans, which was neglectful and abusive.

Remember, Akkaba's leadership is primarily derived from direct descendance of -A-. The purer your blood connection to him, the higher you stood. But even mutants as strong as him could still have throwback children, and he's had a lot of kids over the years. It makes sense that he'd teach these squibs magic so that they'd still be useful to the cause. Which is actually horrible, since he still planned on purging them later. What a horrible dad.

[JKtheMac]

I really like that one of the potential translations of Shogo's name is "suspicious/scheming potato."

Scheming potato sounds like a kenning for baby to me. Pesky scheming potatoes. Mmm, potatoes.

[Master of Sound]

I just read it and am wondering now, is Clan Akkaba connected to both Apocalypse as well as Otherworld?

So far Excalibur is a medium book for me, not good, not bad. I am hoping it gets better, not thrown of my feet yet.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

I really need a better understanding of A's survival of the fittest philosophy, because it seems so contrarian at times. He gave magic to Coven Akkaba, but still planned on killing them off for being inferior. So, no matter how powerful a sorcerer became, they'd never be worthy if they were only human? Does this negative rating extend even to Doctor Doom? If so, how does that make any sense? Doom killed mad Celestials and solo'd the beyonders. He did this through genius and creativity. Compared to him, who is Apocalypse? What's he done that matters? "Okaaaay, but are you a mutant?". It seems like a moving goal post.

[JKtheMac]

I just read it and am wondering now, is Clan Akkaba connected to both Apocalypse as well as Otherworld?

They are connected to Otherworld only because Marianna Stern has infiltrated them to maintain favour with le Fey. And given the ruthless manner she used to change covens we can assume she is pretty selfishly driven.

[JKtheMac]

I really need a better understanding of A's survival of the fittest philosophy, because it seems so contrarian at times. He gave magic to Coven Akkaba, but still planned on killing them off for being inferior. So, no matter how powerful a sorcerer became, they'd never be worthy if they were only human? Does this negative rating extend even to Doctor Doom? If so, how does that make any sense? Doom killed mad Celestials and solo'd the beyonders. He did this through genius and creativity. Compared to him, who is Apocalypse? What's he done that matters? "Okaaaay, but are you a mutant?". It seems like a moving goal post.

They seem to be tweaking Apocalypse’s philosophy. Hopefully because his ‘survival of the fittest’ tended to end up being ‘might is right’ and nothing to do with evolution under quite a few writers. I mean, do we need yet another Nazi analog?

Now his philosophy seems to be being represented as pro-mutant but non interventionist when it comes to their decisions. Kind of an extreme Sparta philosophy but treating everyone as the kids sent out to survive the harsh world. Presumably he believes that people are tempered by challenge and made stronger. That’s still a highly problematic perspective but at least it’s not Nazi.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

They seem to be tweaking Apocalypse’s philosophy. Hopefully because his ‘survival of the fittest’ tended to end up being ‘might is right’ and nothing to do with evolution under quite a few writers. I mean, do we need yet another Nazi analog?

Now his philosophy seems to be being represented as pro-mutant but non interventionist when it comes to their decisions. Kind of an extreme Sparta philosophy but treating everyone as the kids sent out to survive the harsh world. Presumably he believes that people are tempered by challenge and made stronger. That’s still a highly problematic perspective but at least it’s not Nazi.

It still kinda is though? Just based on the fact that he himself gets the final say on who he deems fittest; Coven Akkaba, for example, dedicated themselves to him and his ideologies and, at the end of it, he still found them undesirable based on their genetic make-up.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

They seem to be tweaking Apocalypse’s philosophy. Hopefully because his ‘survival of the fittest’ tended to end up being ‘might is right’ and nothing to do with evolution under quite a few writers. I mean, do we need yet another Nazi analog?

Now his philosophy seems to be being represented as pro-mutant but non interventionist when it comes to their decisions. Kind of an extreme Sparta philosophy but treating everyone as the kids sent out to survive the harsh world. Presumably he believes that people are tempered by challenge and made stronger. That’s still a highly problematic perspective but at least it’s not Nazi.

Agreed. He has a history of giving powers to baseline humans like Moses Magnum, and converting non-combat types like Gazer and Caliban into freakin' Horsemen. Going by his depiction in the classic show(which I've been disney+ binging on), I always thought he was above the politics of genetics, thanks to his god complex.

[JKtheMac]

It still kinda is though? Just based on the fact that he himself gets the final say on who he deems fittest; Coven Akkaba, for example, dedicated themselves to him and his ideologies and, at the end of it, he still found them undesirable based on their genetic make-up.

Like I said. He is still highly problematic whatever way we look at it. But if you are going by the old stories to come to this ‘based on their genetic makeup’ idea then we don’t quite know how it will be handled here. Besides, [A] can happily abandon people and then reassess them later. He would just see it as leaving them exposed and not actively protecting them.

[JKtheMac]

Agreed. He has a history of giving powers to baseline humans like Moses Magnum, and converting non-combat types like Gazer and Caliban into freakin' Horsemen. Going by his depiction in the classic show(which I've been disney+ binging on), I always thought he was above the politics of genetics, thanks to his god complex.

Taking ‘fittest’ to mean strong or dominant has always been a problem. While he was a villain it probably felt fine with some writers, but it didn’t make logical sense for someone so steeped in science. So this is a course correction IMO.

I mean, by his philosophy in some comics of the past, grass should be wiped out for being subsumed into the human food chain and not being stronger!

[Knightmare]

So far, this title is a mess! I think we can all agree, it's not off to the best start.

The roster, is still a mystery to me and only baffles we further the more I read. Rouge and Gambit, why is Rouge being taken to an active battlefield? And why is Gambit allowing it? Considering how he's being portrayed at the moment, it doesn't seem like something he'd sign off on. Feels like it's just there to setup some future story plot points, but done in a really sloppy way.
Jubilee and Shogo, they seem to have even less reason to be on this team than Rouge and Gambit. If you're so worried about your child, be a responsible parent and take care of him. If this was the real world Jubilee would be in court fighting for custody of Shogo, for being so irresponsible.
Apocalypse and Captain Britain feel like the only ones relevant to this current arc and the title would probably be more coherent if it just focused on there dynamic. I'll make a prediction that Apoc is the one causing all the trouble(obvious I know) for some future evil goal, which will likely be not as impressive as it's built up to be.

This title could have been so much better, however I'm losing faith with each issue.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Like I said. He is still highly problematic whatever way we look at it. But if you are going by the old stories to come to this ‘based on their genetic makeup’ idea then we don’t quite know how it will be handled here. Besides, [A] can happily abandon people and then reassess them later. He would just see it as leaving them exposed and not actively protecting them.

But we are seeing how it's handled. Apocalypse is telling us so:

"They came to believe in a foolish lie: that their magic made them on par with the Superior, and I would spare them at the end of days. A heresy."

"The gate is the spark of a cleansing flame, Captain. And now you, whom they call witch-breed, bear their flag on their chest as if to say Britain belongs to Homo Superior--and it is a fine thing."

I'm not sure how else you could possibly read that; he's putting genetics over worth.

[Londo Bellian]

I'll make a prediction that Apoc is the one causing all the trouble(obvious I know)

You mean like how he possibly "exploited" the Otherworld situation to place Brian Braddock in a situation that would spur Betsy to take his Captain Britain powers and thus put it at the "disposal of Krakoa"? Or that he may also "possibly" have set up Shogo being brought to Otherworld to be balefully poly-morphed and set him up to be eliminated (and thus remove the one element - mothering a human - that has made Jubilee come off as less-approachable to the Krakoans)?

[JKtheMac]

But we are seeing how it's handled. Apocalypse is telling us so:

"They came to believe in a foolish lie: that their magic made them on par with the Superior, and I would spare them at the end of days. A heresy."
"The gate is the spark of a cleansing flame, Captain. And now you, whom they call witch-breed, bear their flag on their chest as if to say Britain belongs to Homo Superior--and it is a fine thing."

I'm not sure how else you could possibly read that; he's putting genetics over worth.

The first seems open to interpretation to me. More about his own vision for where he sees himself and how he sees magic as a route to power and usurping him than a philosophy on genetics.

The second is a symbol for leadership. He sees it a triumph of mutant kind but again he clearly doesn't give a pass to all mutants in all situations.

So, what exactly are you disagreeing with?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

The first seems open to interpretation to me. More about his own vision for where he sees himself and how he sees magic as a route to power and usurping him than a philosophy on genetics.

The second is a symbol for leadership. He sees it a triumph of mutant kind but again he clearly doesn't give a pass to all mutants in all situations.

So, what exactly are you disagreeing with?

I'm disagreeing with the open ended interpretation you seem to be able to garner from his speech. To me, it isn't so ambiguous, especially considering Apocalypse's past characterisation: He see's mutants as superior, therefore dominant, therefore he's happy to see mutants claim dominion over said lands and plans to reach further. In his view, mutants genetics make them inherently superior and, by default, humans are a dead-weight he's happy to shed. He told us that.