Excalibur [02]: A Tower of Flowers SPOILERS

[Malachi]

You have a very upside down way of seeing the craft of writing IMO. The most important element is the premise, followed by the themes. Character may come early on in the list of how Marvel apportions characters, but ‘getting the characters right’ is so subjective anyway, that the writer has very little chance of convincing everyone that they did that. They just need to focus on expressing the characters in the way that they see them and editors are happy with.

While we are on subjective enjoyment, then for me personally I don’t really care if the characters are ‘right’ I just want them to be interesting and in this book they seem interesting to me. Which is a feat in itself as someone that actively dislikes Gambit.

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You know I am a writer. Oviously not with english as my first language though. It's amusing(not meant in a ridiculing way) for me to read your comment on the upside down view of my craft. I still very much stand by my previous comment but must emphasise that It's more a write for your reader way of seeing it. Witch in comics are not something to dimiss. I could write something longer but it just seems out of place here.

[JKtheMac]

You know I am a writer. Oviously not with english as my first language though. It's amusing(not meant in a ridiculing way) for me to read your comment on the upside down view of my craft. I still very much stand by my previous comment but must emphasise that It's more a write for your reader way of seeing it. Witch in comics are not something to dimiss. I could write something longer but it just seems out of place here.

Well I write the other way up, so same amusement. I was talking from my own perspective as a writer. And many other writers on these forums have espoused the common view that writing for ones audience is not the way they see things.

Most of us write for ourselves with the philosophy that at least one reader will be happy rather than potentially nobody being happy. But writing is just as subjective as reading when it comes to the how of things, so whatever works for you.

[Devaishwarya]

Well I write the other way up, so same amusement. I was talking from my own perspective as a writer. And many other writers on these forums have espoused the common view that writing for ones audience is not the way they see things.

Most of us write for ourselves with the philosophy that at least one reader will be happy rather than potentially nobody being happy. But writing is just as subjective as reading when it comes to the how of things, so whatever works for you.

As a flegling aspiring writer, I see the positives of and appreciate both approaches.
Claremont was clearly a character driven/focused writer...and "created" the definitive characteristics of these characters...to which many readers adhere, religiously.
HiX-Man and he X-creatives seem to be more plot-centric where the situations inform the characters responses and actions...which admittedly, does not gel with Claremont's versions of these characters.
But I don't think they are meant to be carbon copies of Claremont's vision...at least not in every detail.
Different writers, different situations, different status quo, different time...thus, different character development.
These are certainly not the X-Men of the 70s 80s and 90s...and personally, I'm very appreciative of that.

[JKtheMac]

As a flegling aspiring writer, I see the positives of and appreciate both approaches.
Claremont was clearly a character driven/focused writer...and "created" the definitive characteristics of these characters...to which many readers adhere, religiously.
HiX-Man and he X-creatives seem to be more plot-centric where the situations inform the characters responses and actions...which admittedly, does not gel with Claremont's versions of these characters.
But I don't think they are meant to be carbon copies of Claremont's vision...at least not in every detail.
Different writers, different situations, different status quo, different time...thus, different character development.
These are certainly not the X-Men of the 70s 80s and 90s...and personally, I'm very appreciative of that.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, but I am not specifically talking about Character Driven vs Plot Driven, I am referring to the way the overall story is constructed. Claremont isn’t really a very good example because he didn’t really construct his stories so much as hack away at them month to month. It is a credit to him that they were still good.

But take a movie or a novel, to remove us from the serialised fiction trap for a moment. What the story is about, or premise, is just as important in a character led story. The premise gives the story shape, because it suggests the arc of the character. Then the chosen themes need to support that premise, to make the whole thing resonate as a unified whole. Captain Marvel is a character led movie. The setting, the tone, the themes and the scene structure all support the premise of expressing oneself. Indeed, I spent quite a bit of time defending that movie because so many people seemed to read the premise as entirely different ones, and if you do that the themes don’t mesh and the scene structure makes less sense.

[CGAR]

I'm gonna say one sidebar after reading the weeks issues of xmen titles.

I really dig how the artists of Fallen Angels and X-Force draw Krakoa. The jungle esque vibes of all its areas and locations.

I think that's one thing that is lacking from Marcos To's interpretation. And something I would like to see him try to get right.

And now I kind of wish the colorist for Excalibur went a little darker with his colors.

[powerpax]

To is a lovely artist. But unless you’re Alan Davis or Larraz or something the poppy style simply doesn’t suit this book. Those artists get weird with their pop which keeps it fresh. The current pencils are very middle of the road art which just doesn’t suit the book’s tone or content IMO. It feels like I’m reading an FF book.

[CGAR]

Ok but Larraz on Excalibur. I WOULD DIE! Getting his Betsy, Gambit, Jubilee, [A], Rogue etc

gosh id be so happy

To's art is great. But it's just too clean and basic. And I don't mean that in a bad way.

[Devaishwarya]

I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying, but I am not specifically talking about Character Driven vs Plot Driven, I am referring to the way the overall story is constructed. Claremont isn’t really a very good example because he didn’t really construct his stories so much as hack away at them month to month. It is a credit to him that they were still good.

But take a movie or a novel, to remove us from the serialised fiction trap for a moment. What the story is about, or premise, is just as important in a character led story. The premise gives the story shape, because it suggests the arc of the character. Then the chosen themes need to support that premise, to make the whole thing resonate as a unified whole. Captain Marvel is a character led movie. The setting, the tone, the themes and the scene structure all support the premise of expressing oneself. Indeed, I spent quite a bit of time defending that movie because so many people seemed to read the premise as entirely different ones, and if you do that the themes don’t mesh and the scene structure makes less sense.

I agree, with respect to the story premise.
This iteration of Excalibur is definitely interesting enough to keep me happily engaged. It is something new and fresh, with new characters...quite different in tone and premise from the "established" original (against which readers seem to judge it.)
I love the magic angle. I love all the characters involved. I love the art. I can overlook minor character/writing nits...not that I personally think there are any.

[Wiccan]

I liked this issue. I see people saying it was "rushed" but I didn't think so. I thought the pacing was fine. It was just a more action-focused issue. I like how Betsy, Remy and Jubilee all have a family member whom they are trying to protect. And Apocalypse kind of forcing them to accept his help so that they do so. I love "basic" pretty-looking art so I'm not mad that it isn't stylized or anything.

[Havok83]

I dont get the complaints with the art as I think To is perfectly suited for a magical fantasy plot. I think the more cartoon-like style fits it as opposed to something more realistic or gritty.

I liked this issue. I see people saying it was "rushed" but I didn't think so. I thought the pacing was fine. It was just a more action-focused issue. I like how Betsy, Remy and Jubilee all have a family member whom they are trying to protect. And Apocalypse kind of forcing them to accept his help so that they do so. I love "basic" pretty-looking art so I'm not mad that it isn't stylized or anything.

I hadnt even noticed that theme till you mentioned it

[CGAR]

It's not complaining. And there really isnt anything to get. I explained what I would like to see but I'm fine with his art.

[Havok83]

My comment wasnt directed at you or any one person. And yes there have been complaints about the art. You dont feel thats you? Then okay but its something Ive read on here in various threads since the first issue. I personally think To is great and his style suits this book quite well