Is "Mutants will replace humans" supremacist rhetoric?

[Zelena]

They’ve shown it, though. How many months and examples will you need to find it believable? And speaking of, when will be seeing any example of your hypothetical scenario above?



Why is it mutants’ responsibility to prioritize human equity first in their civilization after decades of mass murder and disenfranchisement at the hands of other humans? Why can they not put their own safety and prosperity first, and humans second after Genosha, Rosenberg’s run, the Purifiers et al? Just tell me why they shouldn’t put humans in second position after the last twenty years, that’s all I want to know. If mutants had killed sixteen million humans and perpetuated systemic violence against them for years after, would Tony Stark and the human heroes be wrong to close their borders?

Apparently, you don't think that it's in the best interests of mutants of Krakoa to have the most assuaged relationships with the rest of the countries… That and that only wouldn't assure safety and prosperity (why would have countries armies otherwise?) but it could certainly contribute in my opinion.

[teapartyofthedead]

It comes down to what we in real life commonly hold to be the ‘responsibilities’ of the abused and oppressed, and the oppressors. The oppressed are supposed to remain pure of intention and action at all times, for even one movement towards defense makes you just as evil and deserve the abuse in the first place. The oppressors are just shrugged at as being ignorant and just needing a really compelling and well researched thesis on why they shouldn’t commit slavery or genocide, complete with hugs and an apology for making them so mad at the oppressed. The oppressed, in this case mutants, are supposed to remain motionless and calm no matter how many times they are collared and beaten, while singing of peace and never once frown as if it this might be in any way painful.

Even removing oneself from the abuse and trying to ensure that said abuse doesn’t happen again is unacceptable. Any movement that suggests the humans are in any way wrong, or not putting the ‘not all humans’ caveat, is forbidden. Because the comfort and fragility of the humans must be catered to at all times, never minding the work camps and prisons filled with mutants.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

They’ve shown it, though. How many months and examples will you need to find it believable? And speaking of, when will be seeing any example of your hypothetical scenario above?

They haven't, though, not really; they've shown one family and it was ambiguous as hell what their sentiment as to 'the other humans' is like on a larger scale. It was lip-service at best.

Why is it mutants’ responsibility to prioritize human equity first in their civilization after decades of mass murder and disenfranchisement at the hands of other humans? Why can they not put their own safety and prosperity first, and humans second after Genosha, Rosenberg’s run, the Purifiers et al? Just tell me why they shouldn’t put humans in second position after the last twenty years, that’s all I want to know. If mutants had killed sixteen million humans and perpetuated systemic violence against them for years after, would Tony Stark and the human heroes be wrong to close their borders?

Well alright, here's the thing; I'm not arguing for mutants to put themselves second or for them not to want to turn and look after their own. I'm saying it can be done consecutively for the comfort and benefits of other mutants; mutants who might not want to up and head to Krakoa. Do they not deserve protection too, should they wish to remain where they are?

Also, the thing you seem to be misunderstanding in my comments; no, it isn't mutants responsibility to get humans to stop attacking them. That's on their part, however, attitudes won't be challenged or changed by a purely militant stance, nor from complete separation; that just moves the problem into another room rather than solving it. You want lasting change, you have to balance your approach.

And before you start; no, Xavier's original dream didn't involve holding hands, singing Kumbya, wishing and hoping--that's the grossest and most egregious over-simplification I've ever heard and I'm getting so sick of it. So please, enough with that.

[People Of The Earth]

Just say that it doesn’t matter how many times elements of humanity work to kill, enslave or exterminate mutants - mutants are not allowed to fight back or take an aggressive stance like form a nation-state.

No one is questionning the existence of Krakoa though.
Seriously.
Stop with that false narrative, it's tiresome.

They are not allowed to treat humanity as other or lesser based on their actions.

They can, no one is stopping them to treat the rest of humanity as "other" or "lesser" than themselves.
And people can call them out on this kind of brutish generalization and/or hierarchisation between them and sapiens as a result.

They are not allowed to have any economic or material advantage that would disadvantage humanity.

No one made that argument...

They are not allowed to organize en masse, the same way ‘good and evil’ humans have time and again for political or military gain.

… nor that argument...

They are only allowed to turn the other cheek and “be the bigger person” to make the rest of the MU and the readership feel comfortable.

… nor that argument either.

Just admit that is essentially the baseline position of most of the people unhappy with the current launch, because otherwise people are going in endless circles arguing here.

You are litteraly getting worked-up over arguments no one is making in the first place, get faux-outraged about said made-up arguments to finish by typical X-forum posturing. Just… no.
Are you doing this on purpose? Seriously, it's either that or you don't understand what you read.

And if that is in any way not the position being essentially expressed,

It's not the positions being expressed. Essentially or otherwise.

Read the posts, Don't skim over them, that should help.

then please explain to me what is inaccurate about what I wrote and what mutants are allowed to do.

Thirty-three pages in, it's unbelievable that you and others Don't understand how discussing what a nation does DOESN'T EQUAL putting said nation existence into question altogether… Brexit discussions must be something with you.
Anyway, it's been thoroughly explained and explored in said thirty-three pages, maybe read them for real, so that you won't hold the false belief that people are discussing the existence of Krakoa itself or how the Kraked should behave themselves...

[RachelGrey]

In regards to families being separated how is it different? And the fact that there's literal portals leading directly to Krakoa it's considerably less 'traumatic' than boarding school



uh who are the bigots here? Mutants? Pro Krakoans? Lawd

lol yes 1st step to nation building is to plan for a hypothetical population


lol it literally doesn't matter how much of some posters suspicion of Krakoa gets debunked on panel.the fact that 'Mutants are doing it for themselves' seems to make them uncomfortable/angry .

Yas! This all day. Every day lol

I was done with this argument completely after that anti-mutant group skinned Domino alive. That pretty much settles the whole reason mutants need to protect themselves, arguing at this point is completely redundant. When the racist organizations torture, experiment on, brutalize, and kill your people, you have to defend yourselves against that kind of violence and evil.

Sure some of the mutants have unacceptable rhetoric, but for every Magneto and Quentine Quire you have a Jean and a Kurt!

Even Emma has toned her stuff down and is exerting all her efforts to get peace treaties with the humans and then giving Kate the information on where mutants need to be rescued from their human oppressors.

I think the arguments here are "this is how I would write the entire Marvel Universe if I was in charge of the books!" I prefer to let the current slate of writers show me their vision and see how it plays out, I like the new science fiction focus for the X-Men, I like the new feeling of hope they have being an independent nation. It's a new way to try things out. Hickman even addressed many of the problems of Utopia and Jean's attempt at creating a New Tian, they had the nation of Krakoa use economic power to get countries to sign on to the peace treaties. Embrace mutant rights and equality, let mutants go to Krakoa freely, and we share our new medicines with you. The peace treaty they have with China and the United States is good enough that both countries are willing to impose economic sanctions on Russia to get the Russian government to allow mutants to leave the country. That's a huge change for the world politics.

Kate's mission is to rescue mutants where all other avenues of political pressure have failed. The mutants she rescued were all being rounded up for indefinite imprisonment and forced labour, and probably experimentation by the Russian government, since the Russians refused to let the mutants go, Kate's group rescued the mutants personally. They were met with very violent and lethal resistance, and the they responded with enough violence to defeat the oppressors and free the mutants. Once they were able to get the soldiers to stand down all violence stopped, and Marauders did not take anyone prisoner, they left all the Russian soldiers to remain in their territory.

I think what some of you want is that this be an entirely different story. You want to erase the last 20 years of oppression and prejudice against mutants and pretend that racism against mutants is actually limited to people yelling and holding signs. I look at these stories and see an example of what escalating racism can lead to. We have modern day genocides in this world today, and 1st world governments are complicit in these modern genocides, just ask the Kurds.

The question as a writer becomes do you want to tell a story about how the mutants try to survive that escalating racism, what actions they take to protect themselves and their entire people from the genocide. Or do you want to just retcon the whole thing away.

Racism escalates, it always has. This is what lead to people complaining that the Jews control the banks and everything else, then stripping the rights away from the Jews, then rounding the Jews up into Ghettos, then moving the Jews to concentration camps, then killing all the Jews. Racism escalates, people feed off their own hate, and there are politicians in the world who feed that hate to get political power for themselves. We have a modern day example of a President who feeds off the hate he creates and uses it to maintain his political power.

I am sorry when you have members of the Cabinet who live and breath off the most racist book ever written in history then I am sorry you have no choice but to accept the fact that those same racist people are the most vile and racist people ever born on Earth.

So just say you don't like how the story is written and how you think it should be completely different, I am ok with that. But within the existing framework of the Story as Hickman and the other writers have envisioned it, the mutants are an oppressed people fleeing genocide and trying to survive under the most horrible genocide in living memory. Over 17 million mutants! That is the most tragic genocide in the history of the Marvel Universe Earth!

[Wild Fang X]

Easily the most shocking post I've ever read on this forum.

Sadly for you, and thankfully for the rest of us, morality still plays a central role into our societies and how people interact both with one another and regarding the laws of their countries.

I usually don't discuss other people's personal pov or life experiences... but really, get a grip. The notions you are floating are poisonous.

And the gal stand by what she said, earlier, people have every right to be concerned about the policies adopted by Krakoa... The blanket amnesty of all mutants alone, including mass murderers and terrorists, is hugely controversial.

Making rash generalizations without a shred of evidence, eh? Somehow, I expected as such from you. You have yet to answer as to how any of Krakoa's policies are concerning nor have you even begun to elaborate as to how my worldview is "poisonous" in any way. That's the kind of tactics I have come to expect from politicians. Surely, you can do better.

[Wild Fang X]

It comes down to what we in real life commonly hold to be the ‘responsibilities’ of the abused and oppressed, and the oppressors. The oppressed are supposed to remain pure of intention and action at all times, for even one movement towards defense makes you just as evil and deserve the abuse in the first place. The oppressors are just shrugged at as being ignorant and just needing a really compelling and well researched thesis on why they shouldn’t commit slavery or genocide, complete with hugs and an apology for making them so mad at the oppressed. The oppressed, in this case mutants, are supposed to remain motionless and calm no matter how many times they are collared and beaten, while singing of peace and never once frown as if it this might be in any way painful.

Even removing oneself from the abuse and trying to ensure that said abuse doesn’t happen again is unacceptable. Any movement that suggests the humans are in any way wrong, or not putting the ‘not all humans’ caveat, is forbidden. Because the comfort and fragility of the humans must be catered to at all times, never minding the work camps and prisons filled with mutants.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Hoestly, I feel that most of the posters that are crying about Krakoa and how it operates are doing so from a position of unearned privilege. Often times, the privileged would stand against the oppressed party they claim to be "allies" with should said oppressed take any actions to achieve any kind of equity that has the potential to rival, if not surpass those of the privileged. It goes back to my earlier point of many that would throw baseless criticisms being relatively inexperienced when it comes to life and how societies work. That's just my observation, of course.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Why is it mutants’ responsibility to prioritize human equity first in their civilization after decades of mass murder and disenfranchisement at the hands of other humans? Why can they not put their own safety and prosperity first, and humans second after Genosha, Rosenberg’s run, the Purifiers et al? Just tell me why they shouldn’t put humans in second position after the last twenty years, that’s all I want to know. If mutants had killed sixteen million humans and perpetuated systemic violence against them for years after, would Tony Stark and the human heroes be wrong to close their borders?

Genosha was commited by an alien freak. Humans didn't do it. Sixteen million dead mutants murdered by one very evil squid embryo thingy in the shape of a woman. If Magneto succeeded in launching a missile attack on the U.S. like he attempted in his first appearance, no one would be pointing the finger at Raytheon.

[BroHomo]

Genosha was commited by an alien freak. Humans didn't do it. Sixteen million dead mutants murdered by one very evil squid embryo thingy in the shape of a woman. If Magneto succeeded in launching a missile attack on the U.S. like he attempted in his first appearance, no one would be pointing the finger at Raytheon.

Hmmm but if Magneto convinces the person in charge to launch nuclear missiles theeeeen that persons just as culpable

[PsychoEFrost]

Genosha was commited by an alien freak. Humans didn't do it. Sixteen million dead mutants murdered by one very evil squid embryo thingy in the shape of a woman. If Magneto succeeded in launching a missile attack on the U.S. like he attempted in his first appearance, no one would be pointing the finger at Raytheon.

Nova didn't destroy Genosha herself. A team of Mega-Sentinels, created by a human, solely for the purpose of killing as many mutants as possible, did.

And before you mention that the blame should lie with the person who pulls the trigger, not the gun, that doesn't apply when the guns sole purpose in existence is to kill as many mutants as possible. It has no other purpose than to enact widescale genocide.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Hmmm but if Magneto convinces the person in charge to launch nuclear missiles theeeeen that persons just as culpable

Brohomo, not gonna lie, did not think of it like that. But you're right, Nova did convince Dentist Trask to attack Genosha. He was the one who authorized the original strike. He was manipulated into it, but he was still responsible for the act itself. Stance amended: Humans did Genosha.

Uh. Our bad. We cool?

@PsychoEFrost

Okay. You're right. I'm not immune to a convincing argument. Humans did Genosha.

[Electricmastro]

Genosha was commited by an alien freak. Humans didn't do it. Sixteen million dead mutants murdered by one very evil squid embryo thingy in the shape of a woman. If Magneto succeeded in launching a missile attack on the U.S. like he attempted in his first appearance, no one would be pointing the finger at Raytheon.

And Magneto's worst crime before his trial was said to have probably been when he caused the sinking of a Russian submarine in Uncanny X-Men #150 (1981), which Magneto later claimed in Secret Wars was an of extremist self-defense in declaring war on him, though I suppose it could also be reasonably argued he was practically declaring war on humanity due to his prior actions.

[Zelena]

Okay. You're right. I'm not immune to a convincing argument. Humans did Genosha.

You give up easily. Tired?

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

You give up easily. Tired?

No. I'm just resolved to being a reasonable person.

[BroHomo]

Brohomo, not gonna lie, did not think of it like that. But you're right, Nova did convince Dentist Trask to attack Genosha. He was the one who authorized the original strike. He was manipulated into it, but he was still responsible for the act itself. Stance amended: Humans did Genosha.

Uh. Our bad. We cool?

Bro... lol
Youre an X-Men Fan
with an Awesome profile name
soooo Zuh!!
of course we're cool