Is "Mutants will replace humans" supremacist rhetoric?

[Londo Bellian]

One thinks at the onset of the 40s and so on they'd be set in their ways and ideas. Are you asking me to alter the personal viewpoint that is souring my opinion of Krakoa, one that has been built by 37 years of living?

"What can change the nature of a man?" ~"Planescape: Torment"

[PwrdOn]

Then maybe, to save time and energy, you could consider conceding the possibility that there’s more than one way to look at this status quo beyond the most sinister interpretation and that people who identify with a minority getting sick and tired of being ground into the dirt might have a point, as opposed to constantly insinuating that anyone who enjoys reading these comic books is a breath away from joining a real-life fascist insurrection. These stories are not real.

Eh, given that the alt right largely consists of young adult men who think the quasi-philosophical claptrap in the Matrix and Fight Club was deep and insightful, and get irrationally invested in preserving the race, gender, and sexuality of characters in comics, cartoons, and movies, it's not really a huge stretch to imagine that an X-Men storyline that hits those same beats could push readers toward fascism. While you might think that it is ridiculous to believe that white men are a minority who are sick and tired of being ground into the dirt, there are lots of fans out there who believe exactly that, and will take the mutant metaphor accordingly.

[PsychoEFrost]

Eh, given that the alt right largely consists of young adult men who think the quasi-philosophical claptrap in the Matrix and Fight Club was deep and insightful, and get irrationally invested in preserving the race, gender, and sexuality of characters in comics, cartoons, and movies, it's not really a huge stretch to imagine that an X-Men storyline that hits those same beats could push readers toward fascism. While you might think that it is ridiculous to believe that white men are a minority who are sick and tired of being ground into the dirt, there are lots of fans out there who believe exactly that, and will take the mutant metaphor accordingly.

So we shouldn't have any new stories or any comics with any level of controversy whatsoever because inbred alt-right rednecks might get radicalized by it?

[Zelena]

So we shouldn't have any new stories or any comics with any level of controversy whatsoever because inbred alt-right rednecks might get radicalized by it?

The controversy should be present in the comics, though, not just on forums. But it's not discussed between the characters. It would be, however, the best place for a controversy, being included in the artwork.

[Killerbee911]

No one is complaining about the creation of a country-like Krakoa - it's been done before, and will be done again after Hickman's run.
What people are annoyed to see is the X-Men and Xavier being front and center in its creation.
If the Acolytes or Magneto and his Brotherhood had been the ones to create that nation and were the ones to run their mouth with that kind of wild rhetoric on race and separatism, no one would bat an eye whatsoever: that would be in line with what we know of them.
But Xavier and his X-Men are on the far end of that moral Spectrum, fighting for peaceful coexistence between sapiens and mutants. They were NEVER about mutant separatism, let alone mutant supremacy over sapiens. That's not WHO they are.

Also, you and others need to realize that mutants are as humans as sapiens, it's been talked to death and it's really annoying to keep seeing people make that awful distinction between mutants and the rest of humanity.
Mutants are Humans, the same way that Sapiens are Humans.
They both are sister branches of Humanity, both are integral part of the Human specie.
With this logic that you are employing, that keeps distancing mutants from the rest of humanity to the point of you referring to sapiens as "the HUMANS" , why oh why then should sapiens care about them? Beings that are not even referring themselves as humans anymore but as their own separate species?
They might as well be aliens with your logic.

My Logic, You mean the logic of the fiction



I don't make up my interpretation of the fiction. It makes easier to roll with punches of different writer interpretations sometimes mutants are humans with a little extra juice and sometimes they are different species much in the same way Dogs and Wolves are different species. People keep ignoring the fiction to makeup their own stuff or the roll with was present in the past or another presentation. Good or Bad I roll with fiction they are telling.

[Killerbee911]

Shrug. Its not real life. Very distant from it. Thats why the metaphor is shockingly bad.

The Xmen's motto since inception has been ... Protecting a World That Hates and Fears Them... Not abandoning humanity until we decide we get to be its new gods fully.

Meanwhile we're just too deep on these forums sometimes. Smh. Laterz.

Good post but here is the thing, If you keep trying protecting world that hate and fears you and reaching nowhere it is pointless, And that message becomes pointless and meaningless. The X-men have a meaningless message with any progress forward. The current status quo might not be the completely right thing but it is accurate to a representation of what people pushed in a dire situation would do.

As an example, it would be like telling Jews during the Holocaust you guys should be marching for equality. Your methods should match the situation in front of you. The mutants are place in the world where different methods are necessary but fans keep acting like methodology isn't dictated by the situation. There is a difference between fighting for your lives and fighting for civil rights. Anyways like your last sentence said we overthink stuff on forums

[Kintor]

I don't make up my interpretation of the fiction. It makes easier to roll with punches of different writer interpretations sometimes mutants are humans with a little extra juice and sometimes they are different species much in the same way Dogs and Wolves are different species. People keep ignoring the fiction to makeup their own stuff or the roll with was present in the past or another presentation. Good or Bad I roll with fiction they are telling.

The idea that mutants are a separate species being promoted by HoX/PoX is as much an exercise in propaganda as anything else. The isolated nation and the new language, it's all to artificially create a distinction between mutants and the rest of humanity that might otherwise not exist. After all, most mutants spend their childhood (and often adolescence) raised as a normal human until the sudden manifestation of their powers, it's a shared cultural heritage that a few weeks in Krakoa is not going to erase. Even the most radical transhumanists in real-life (yes they are thing) still call themselves human, the successors to homo sapiens perhaps but still human nonetheless.

[powerpax]

The idea that mutants are a separate species being promoted by HoX/PoX is as much an exercise in propaganda as anything else. The isolated nation and the new language, it's all to artificially create a distinction between mutants and the rest of humanity that might otherwise not exist.

A distinction Xavier and the X-Men have acknowledged and discussed since the '60s. After decades of being hunted, exterminated and legislated against they are now simply underlining it.

[Huntsman Spider]

One thinks at the onset of the 40s and so on they'd be set in their ways and ideas. Are you asking me to alter the personal viewpoint that is souring my opinion of Krakoa, one that has been built by 37 years of living?

"What can change the nature of a man?" ~"Planescape: Torment"

Ah, that's a good one. Regret. Regret can change the nature of a man. Not trying to comment on your particular situation, just remarking on the quote you used, since I'm somewhat familiar with that game.

That said, in regards to the post one page or so ago about power fantasies --- all superhero comics boil down to power fantasies, in many cases intertwined with sex fantasies. It's just that we're used to having those power fantasies cater near-exclusively to the majority demographic, so when the superhero power fantasy starts catering to those who would otherwise be overlooked, dismissed, mocked, marginalized, and even brutalized and dehumanized by members of the majority demographic . . . well, some people start getting antsy. That's my piece.

[Londo Bellian]

I never did finish that game. That is regret enough. Just as sometimes I regret stumbling onto CBR and registering at the forums, because sometimes the heat in the kitchen gets to be as hot as a million exploding suns and I know my opinions don't matter.

Funny story that. My road to CBR Forums started years ago when viewing a YouTube video taken from the "Marvel Disk Wars: Avengers" anime, of an episode during the X-Men arc. When one of the comments mentioned Cyclops having become a super-villain in the books (Toei premiered "MDWA" after "AvX" I think), my curiosity was piqued. After a random Google search, I saw CBR. Then I saw the forums. Then I registered so I can view file attachments. Then I began posting. And then I became a forum butt-monkey. I love and curse my addiction to these forums in the same breath nowadays.

[Huntsman Spider]

I never did finish that game. That is regret enough. Just as sometimes I regret stumbling onto CBR and registering at the forums, because sometimes the heat in the kitchen gets to be as hot as a million exploding suns and I know my opinions don't matter.

Funny story that. My road to CBR Forums started years ago when viewing a YouTube video taken from the "Marvel Disk Wars: Avengers" anime, of an episode during the X-Men arc. When one of the comments mentioned Cyclops having become a super-villain in the books (Toei premiered "MDWA" after "AvX" I think), my curiosity was piqued. After a random Google search, I saw CBR. Then I saw the forums. Then I registered so I can view file attachments. Then I began posting. And then I became a forum butt-monkey. I love and curse my addiction to these forums in the same breath nowadays.

Yeah, Disk Wars Avengers came out in 2014. And I can somewhat relate. My first experience with CBR was registering back in the days of the original Civil War since as a college student getting strongly into politics, the subtext and allegory of Civil War's plot and themes appealed to me. Took me a good while to stop being pissed off at Iron Man, a character I'd generally liked or at least not minded after seeing him in his own 90s animated series and guest-starring in Spider-Man's 90s animated series, though. Been a hell of an experience, with the word "hell" sometimes being close to fitting.

[Londo Bellian]

Yeah, Disk Wars Avengers came out in 2014. And I can somewhat relate. My first experience with CBR was registering back in the days of the original Civil War since as a college student getting strongly into politics, the subtext and allegory of Civil War's plot and themes appealed to me. Took me a good while to stop being pissed off at Iron Man, a character I'd generally liked or at least not minded after seeing him in his own 90s animated series and guest-starring in Spider-Man's 90s animated series, though. Been a hell of an experience, with the word "hell" sometimes being close to fitting.

What really ruins the experience with me is that, with the shadow of Krakoa over my head, the current status quo and upturned-nose portrayal of the X-People now has been heavily bleeding over into any alternative adaptation of the X-Men in other media that I try to cater to. Take the "Disk Wars" anime I mentioned. If I watched the episode where the X-Men confront Magneto there, Storm's optimistic declaration that they will never give up the struggle "until humans and mutants can live together" will now sound to my ears as "humans don't know when to submit" (X-Men #1 DOX). Or if I watched some Evolution, now Kitty's dialogue sounds to me like a loop of "kick-the-down-and-out-baddie-with-drunken-psychotic-glee Kate" (Marauders #1 DOX). That too extends to reading X-Men fanfic. HoxPoxDox is a merciless buzzkill.

[PwrdOn]

Ah, that's a good one. Regret. Regret can change the nature of a man. Not trying to comment on your particular situation, just remarking on the quote you used, since I'm somewhat familiar with that game.

That said, in regards to the post one page or so ago about power fantasies --- all superhero comics boil down to power fantasies, in many cases intertwined with sex fantasies. It's just that we're used to having those power fantasies cater near-exclusively to the majority demographic, so when the superhero power fantasy starts catering to those who would otherwise be overlooked, dismissed, mocked, marginalized, and even brutalized and dehumanized by members of the majority demographic . . . well, some people start getting antsy. That's my piece.

Sure, but we're not talking about Black Panther or Wonder Woman here. We're talking about a comic that presents a power fantasy in the form of an oppressed minority that doesn't actually exist, and whose members in most cases tend to look suspiciously like the straight white men that make up the bulk of the book's target audience, who are decidedly not being discriminated against in any real way. The narrative allows people to live out that rebellious fantasy of fighting against The Man, without having to ever actually suffer any of the injustices that would warrant that kind of attitude. When you start telling those with privilege that they're the real victims and that the unwashed masses of society are out to deny them their rightful place in the sun, well you can see the troubling implications there.

[PsychoEFrost]

Sure, but we're not talking about Black Panther or Wonder Woman here. We're talking about a comic that presents a power fantasy in the form of an oppressed minority that doesn't actually exist, and whose members in most cases tend to look suspiciously like the straight white men that make up the bulk of the book's target audience, who are decidedly not being discriminated against in any real way. The narrative allows people to live out that rebellious fantasy of fighting against The Man, without having to ever actually suffer any of the injustices that would warrant that kind of attitude. When you start telling those with privilege that they're the real victims and that the unwashed masses of society are out to deny them their rightful place in the sun, well you can see the troubling implications there.

That's only if you completely ignore all of the actually oppressed people who find solace in the books, and don't see them as outlets for rednecks.

And here's the thing about "oppression" you have clearly missed: Unless you are a 12-year old orphan in a war torn third world country infected with HIV from being gang raped by the local militia after they slaughtered your village: someone out there has it worse than you. So maybe don't assume that everyone that reads the X-Men books is a rich white straight Christian male

[powerpax]

We're talking about a comic that presents a power fantasy in the form of an oppressed minority that doesn't actually exist, and whose members in most cases tend to look suspiciously like the straight white men that make up the bulk of the book's target audience, who are decidedly not being discriminated against in any real way.

Please reconsider the poster base.