Is "Mutants will replace humans" supremacist rhetoric?

[Huntsman Spider]

So what, the 'non-humans' are saints, better people? I'm tired of this rhetoric. I can accept that the 'humans' have plenty of flaws, I can say it. I just don't see how the others are better people. They are selfish, short-sighted, driven by their passion like we are, they have been raised in a 'human' society, have their values, the mutants are not ants thinking about their community first (otherwise it would be boring to read…).

Maybe not, but as Tony Stark said in Iron Man 3 . . . "We create our own demons." That was what humanity did, created its own demons through unceasing corruption, greed, and bigotry. As someone else in real life said, "The chickens are coming home to roost." Human society as a whole is tailored to benefit a powerful, privileged few at the expense of the rest, who are compelled and driven to fight over whatever scraps the aforementioned few deign to give them while being told to accept their lot in life or take it out on the nearest convenient scapegoat. We can see the repercussions of that in the real world already, but Jonathan Hickman (X-Men) and Al Ewing (Immortal Hulk) are showing what happens when there's someone powerful enough --- and willing --- to take on and upend that status quo.

[davew128]

Scott knew the Phoenix, based on having a decade of experience with it, was going to help propel Mutants forward

He knew no such thing. If he knew it, why didn't he DO it when he had the power?

while the Avengers with a half-assed briefing thought it was going to blow down their house.

A half assed briefing with lots of concrete evidence to back it up. I mean its not like half the galaxy was on high alert watching inhabited planets getting wrecked. Or do those lives not matter because they aren't Earth mutants?

[PsychoEFrost]

He knew no such thing. If he knew it, why didn't he DO it when he had the power?
A half assed briefing with lots of concrete evidence to back it up. I mean its not like half the galaxy was on high alert watching inhabited planets getting wrecked. Or do those lives not matter because they aren't Earth mutants?

Because he couldn't. Chaos Magic harms the Phoenix, and No More Mutants was cast with it. That's why Hope was needed, because she could combine Wanda's Chaos magic with the Phoenix in a way no one could because of her mutant ability. Scott initial plan was to wait for Hope to be strong enough to do it, but the Avengers kept attacking and he eventually lost himself.

The only planets that should have been destroyed were ones that had stopped the progression of life (like Terrax's).

Most importantly, the Avengers got all of their info regarding the Phoenix from someone who hates the Phoenix and hates Scott. Wolverine gave Captain America blatantly false information.

[hulkling]

Maybe not, but as Tony Stark said in Iron Man 3 . . . "We create our own demons." That was what humanity did, created its own demons through unceasing corruption, greed, and bigotry. As someone else in real life said, "The chickens are coming home to roost." Human society as a whole is tailored to benefit a powerful, privileged few at the expense of the rest, who are compelled and driven to fight over whatever scraps the aforementioned few deign to give them while being told to accept their lot in life or take it out on the nearest convenient scapegoat. We can see the repercussions of that in the real world already, but Jonathan Hickman (X-Men) and Al Ewing (Immortal Hulk) are showing what happens when there's someone powerful enough --- and willing --- to take on and upend that status quo.

Can you remind me the consecuences for Shaw after Marauders #2 ? I know that his activities were stopped but where are the consecuences for his actions? . that is the first case of corruption in Krakoa and looks like the that he is still in the Quiet Council and is Black king in the Hellfire corporation . So what is the difference between Dario Agger and Sebastian Shaw? What is the difference between Roxxon and Hellfire corporation? What is the difference between how humanity faces corruption and how mutankind is facing it in Krakoa?

[hulkling]

Because he couldn't. Chaos Magic harms the Phoenix, and No More Mutants was cast with it. That's why Hope was needed, because she could combine Wanda's Chaos magic with the Phoenix in a way no one could because of her mutant ability. Scott initial plan was to wait for Hope to be strong enough to do it, but the Avengers kept attacking and he eventually lost himself.

The only planets that should have been destroyed were ones that had stopped the progression of life (like Terrax's).

Most importantly, the Avengers got all of their info regarding the Phoenix from someone who hates the Phoenix and hates Scott. Wolverine gave Captain America blatantly false information.

We have seen that the Phoenix destroyed many planets in its furious path to earth. Logan school even had a volunteering to help all the refugees aliens after AvsX.

[hulkling]

Morgan le Fay is an ancient supervillain who detests 'witchbreed'/mutants. Her opinion, not fact. She is the antagonist in story.



Also supposition, not fact. But you can side with le Fay if you like.

that isnt an opinion, the fact is Krakoan flowers are polluting the source of all magic of Britain. She is a villian because she is using villianous means to restore the magic, destroy the source of the problem that in this case is a sentient race, the mutants.

And i think is a bit pointless claim that Morgan is a ancient villian when in the other side there is Apocalyse that is more ancient and more evil than her.

[LordUltimus]

Considering that Bruce Banner is currently getting his soul slowly consumed by the One Below All, I'm not sure if he's the best source to take for this.

[Londo Bellian]

Maui Voice: What is the lesson here, what is the takeaway?

The Lesson (to me and mine): Look, if following HoxPoxDox is actually wreaking havoc with my emotional state, then that only means that the time has finally come for me to make a final and permanent retirement from reading the latest "X-Men" comic books, and maybe Marvel Comics as a whole. Because Krakoa is the new default settings for the X-Men baby, and these characters will never be re-characterized the way I liked them or have been used to from years past, ever again. And besides, I won't like what they're going to do to the rest of the comics Marvel U in their newly empowered state anyway. So really, if I can never accept Krakoa then the best course of action for me, a disgruntled reader, is to *Scorpion voice* GET OUT OF HERE. Bye Felicia. One less buyer won't hurt the current sales figures, nosiree.

So I got to scoot because I'm crashing the eternal beach party. Maybe wallow in pre-Counter-X back issues of "Gen-X" or binge on TAS and Evo on Disney+. For I will never see the X-Men acting like that ever again.

*cue echoes of Emma's laughter from the Konami "X-Men" arcade beat 'em up* *drowns them out with "Frozen II" songs*

[Glio]

I don't know why you are mentioning AvsX again but it was established that the reason why Hope couldn't control the Phoenix the first time she made contact on the moon is because she didn't have her Lights nearby to help her control it.

And we already know why their Lights were not with her.

[Huntsman Spider]

Can you remind me the consecuences for Shaw after Marauders #2 ? I know that his activities were stopped but where are the consecuences for his actions? . that is the first case of corruption in Krakoa and looks like the that he is still in the Quiet Council and is Black king in the Hellfire corporation . So what is the difference between Dario Agger and Sebastian Shaw? What is the difference between Roxxon and Hellfire corporation? What is the difference between how humanity faces corruption and how mutankind is facing it in Krakoa?

That's actually a good point you raise, I'll admit. If mutant society goes down the same path that human society has been on . . .

Considering that Bruce Banner is currently getting his soul slowly consumed by the One Below All, I'm not sure if he's the best source to take for this.

He's still right. You just have to look at the world outside your window to see everything going to hell in a handbasket because of the greed and power-lust of a few. It's just that at least in a fictional universe like Marvel Comics, there are people who are not only willing to fight back against it, they have the power to actually topple the corrupted institutions that have only aided and abetted that aforementioned greed and power-lust.

[DragonsChi]

This seems to be a sticking point; that Charles' "we will replace you" bit in his speech to the human world is a sign of mutant supremacy. Thought we needed a seperate place to discuss this.

Yes, without question.

It really is no different than the KKK or any other group who claims to be dominant/better to another.

[Londo Bellian]

That's actually a good point you raise, I'll admit. If mutant society goes down the same path that human society has been on . . .

Maybe the Krakoan "government" gives Sebastian a pass because he's more affable about his troublesome-ness than Creed could ever be?

[Huntsman Spider]

Maybe the Krakoan "government" gives Sebastian a pass because he's more affable about his troublesome-ness than Creed could ever be?

Mostly because Creed is (portrayed as) a mad dog who'll kill anyone he feels like and ultimately has no loyalty to anyone or anything. Of course, Shaw will probably have to be taken care of eventually as well, since his greed and opportunism could very well end up destroying everything the Krakoans are trying to achieve for mutantkind.

[Knives]

Perhaps the problem with people with the phrase mutants replacing humans believing something supremacist is that X-men and mutants are no longer underdogs.

They are no longer trying to live a naive dream or asking permission to live their lives without being killed by killer machines. They are taking control of their lives and somehow admitting that they can surpass humans in every aspect without any remorse or shame.

Everyone likes underdogs because they are at a disadvantage and fighting for something better for them or their people. But that has changed and maybe that explains why some here feel so uncomfortable.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Perhaps the problem with people with the phrase mutants replacing humans believing something supremacist is that X-men and mutants are no longer underdogs.

They are no longer trying to live a naive dream or asking permission to live their lives without being killed by killer machines. They are taking control of their lives and somehow admitting that they can surpass humans in every aspect without any remorse or shame.

Everyone likes underdogs because they are at a disadvantage and fighting for something better for them or their people. But that has changed and maybe that explains why some here feel so uncomfortable.

It isn't a naive dream to want coexistence and peace, nor expect to achieve that. Drastic action must be taken to ensure safety of mutants, yes, however that does not have to come at the expense of decrying all of humanity, nor falling into the same pit-falls they were subjected to. It solves nothing and achieves nothing except ensuring a divide--which is especially unhelpful when you consider that mutants can still birth human children.

They shouldn't have to ask permission to live, to be proud of themselves, to not be killed and have basic rights, you're right; but that doesn't mean they have any right to look down the bridge of their nose at people when they themselves are, basically, the same. Genetic superiority does not equal inherent worth, after all, no matter what side of the coin you look at that from (And yes, I do mean that also in the idea of humans decrying mutants for their genes too.)

And even then, the idea of putting oneself over another is something that we all decry anyway.