Is "Mutants will replace humans" supremacist rhetoric?

[DragonsChi]

No different from the KKK.Hmmm

KKK claims to be superior because of their race but other races do same or better. The difference between Humans races is lack of melanin and pigmentation in their skin(and years of evolution to climate they live in)

Mutants claims to be superior because of their race then proceed to fly shoot, laser out of eyes, have Super strength, control weather and warp reality, etc simply because they were born. The difference between baseline humans and mutants, it that mutants clear advantages by virtue of being mutants.

Yeah I don't see the difference. And as I mentioned before in this thread Mutants will get better over time, We already seen multiples cases of mutants have their both parents powers or displaying higher proficiency and power level. The third gen of mutants will be pretty ridiculous. We already have example one in Hyperstorm which is Franklin Richards and Rachel Grey Son. Superior to humans is a fair assessment.

The two thing people are getting offended over in this thread are true in the Marvel universe

1. Mutants are better than Humans
2. Mutants unless interfered with will be the entire population of earth

Now because Mutants are better than Humans doesn't mean that Humans are with out worth or should be treated worse but that is different topic. Superman knows he is superior but he treats everyone as equal.



You know how natural selection works right? Does mutant with debilitating power have kids? In most case no it is cruel looking at that level but that is reality. But anyways We literally have tons of examples mutants kids and the next generation of mutants getting more powerful.You are literally sticking your head in sand right now. We can do family tree with Wolverine and Summers family if you wanted ,The fiction is pretty clear two mutants tends to give you a mutant with powers of both father and mother. What are we to assume is going to happen when Storm and Wolverine kid has child with Scott and Jean Grey Kid? Heck what happens stomach slug kid has a child with someone with healing factor. Even "bad" mutant powers over time become useful over generations.

These are the same arguments made by Elitist who justify their actions with MONEY or some form of POWER (i.e. Political Power, Economic Power, Status, ect) . Their kids inter-marry in the same circles continuing their "Strength" each passing generation. Furthering their belief of superiority and/or simply "knowing better" than those who have to work for a living, or have not reach their modicum of success.

POWER in any form does not make you better, more deserving, more knowledgeable, more correct, or more ANYTHING than anyone else. Ever.

Disclaimer: Not every person who is rich or holds political power hold pushes these views. At no point in time should blanket statements or feelings beheld against any group of individuals(good or bad). If you do, you're no better than any racist or elitists you claim to be against.

[Londo Bellian]

Lets AvX alone please

Firebirds or Mortal Kombat vs. Marvel Universe.

[Killerbee911]

These are the same arguments made by Elitist who justify their actions with MONEY or some form of POWER (i.e. Political Power, Economic Power, Status, ect) . Their kids inter-marry in the same circles continuing their "Strength" each passing generation.

POWER in any form does not make you better, more deserving, more knowledgeable, more correct, or more ANYTHING than anyone else. Ever.

Superior is literally a physical value thing it is based on what you can do. People are mistaking this as convo on "worth". Mutants are literally superior. 2020 corvette is literally superior to 1990 Jeep. But Jeep has more worth to owner because it was his first car and he has different set of things he wants to do like maybe drive off road. They might be using same argument but one is true and one isn't. Power and Money aren't genetically coded, Mutants are born with an advantage(in most cases) . Their genetics literally gives them fantastic advantages.

Comics are not real life, I would get upset if someone from another race said they were better than me because of race if you give most people from difference the same start the results will be same.There is no vast difference genetics that gives one race You give a mutant and human the same exact start,A large majority of mutants have an advantage that human can't get. Trying to apply the same rules as in real life doesn't make sense in this convo. Once again this things are true in Marvel

1. Mutants are born with thing that humans can't do, Reed and Tony had to study to get better, Prodigy just had to be born.Usain Bolt had to work hard to be fast ,Quicksilver just had to born
2. Mutants population growth rate will overtake humans and eventually mutants will be only ones left. Because humans will die out naturally and intercombine with mutants

[DragonsChi]

Superior is literally a physical value thing it is based on what you can do. People are mistaking this as convo on "worth". Mutants are literally superior. 2020 corvette is literally better than 1990 Jeep. But Jeep has more worth to owner because it was his first car and he has different set of things he wants to do like maybe drive off road. It might be same argument but one is true and one isn't. Power and Money aren't genetically coded, Mutants are born with an advantage(in most cases) . Their genetics literally gives them fantastic advantages.

People are really going Superman isn't better than me,He is just different.

This is Elitist/Suprematist Rhetoric.

Many people on this earth are BORN into to MONEY and/or POWER. Many people on this earth are BORN with genes that naturally make them SMARTER and/or PHYSICALLY STRONGER than most other individuals. By your vary argument here being BORN with MORE naturally makes you better and capable of better deciding and influencing the fate of those who have less or are not as good as those with what is socially determined as MORE.

We as a culture have already seen this play out multiple times and in EACH instance it is proven to be false. WHY? Because we are all at our core HUMANs who have flaws, emotional struggles, lapse in proper judgment and to be short WE ALL SUCK.

Mutants are no different. They are born, they eventually die (even with Hickmans werido rebirth method), they love, and they FAIL. Just like "Normal" people do. Fictional universe or otherwise.

The proposal of ideas that any culture is more deserving than another, fictional or not, is ELITIST and SUPREMATIST rhetoric.

Elitism:Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with an intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience—are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others.

supremacist
n-
a person who promotes or advocates the supremacy of any particular group

adj-
characterized by belief in the supremacy of any particular group
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/supremacist

[Zelena]

Superior is literally a physical value thing it is based on what you can do. People are mistaking this as convo on "worth". Mutants are literally superior. 2020 corvette is literally superior to 1990 Jeep. But Jeep has more worth to owner because it was his first car and he has different set of things he wants to do like maybe drive off road. They might be same argument but one is true and one isn't. Power and Money aren't genetically coded, Mutants are born with an advantage(in most cases) . Their genetics literally gives them fantastic advantages.

Try to go with your Corvette on a gravel road and we will talk again about which car is superior.
Anyway, the biggest problems of our time are not the kind we can solve with individuals who can fire energy blast from their eyes and fly with real wings. It would need collective intelligence and a sense of fraternity. Saying that some people are superior to others is just divisive and counter-productive.

[PeterParked]

This argument is really dumb.

Nowhere in the books, except one scene where Magneto wants to scare some ambassadors, and it’s Magneto, it’s always been like this, nowhere in the books someone states mutants are superior.

Mutants are the next evolution of humans, just like humans are an evolution of Neanderthal, so they are more evolved, that’s a fact , but nowhere they state they are “superior”.

They ask to be recognized as a sovereign nation, that means a nation at the same level of other nations, with the same rights and duties. Krakoa is part of ONU, so it’s like all the other nations, it has to respect all the treaties and international laws so on. That’s not what nations of suprematist usually do.

They leverage the drugs to obtain the nation status and recognition, EXACTLY of all countries do. I don’t see USA or Europe etc. give away their technology, drugs, power sources etc. Are they all suprematist countries? Or mutants, a minority oppressed and decimated, should be held to a higher standards just because?

They are not even isolationists. Krakoa literally has embassies in every country and trades with every country, exactly like any other democracy.

Wha Xavier said to humans is, there was a time I would have given these drugs to you for free, now we will sell them to you if you recognize our country. JUST LIKE ALL HUMANS NATIONS DO. Do people that says that mutants now are supremacist think that ALL HUMANS ARE BAD?

So, does Magneto saying “you have new gods now” in the context of a political power play makes all the mutants suprematist? Obviously not.

[DragonsChi]

...This thread is very reason why the Holocaust and the Fallacies in Hitlers logic needs to be taught in schools. Along with the evidence/History of the Phararoh's in Egypt B.C. . Heck we don't even need to go that far back see what current China is doing...but I regress.

All had the same same idea's in common. Separating one from another group while actively promoting and to a degree preventing intermingling of other groups that were not their own.

All of has led and will continue to lead Negative outcomes. Because INTENT in this instance is still a form of Supremacy.

A Racist does not need to know or understand that he/she is a racist for him/her to be one. All that is needed is to have an opinion/view/belief a group of people to be a thing just because of WHAT they are instead of WHO they are.

It's the same story with ELITISM and SUPREMACY.

[PwrdOn]

This argument is really dumb.

Nowhere in the books, except one scene where Magneto wants to scare some ambassadors, and it’s Magneto, it’s always been like this, nowhere in the books someone states mutants are superior.

Mutants are the next evolution of humans, just like humans are an evolution of Neanderthal, so they are more evolved, that’s a fact , but nowhere they state they are “superior”.

They ask to be recognized as a sovereign nation, that means a nation at the same level of other nations, with the same rights and duties. Krakoa is part of ONU, so it’s like all the other nations, it has to respect all the treaties and international laws so on. That’s not what nations of suprematist usually do.

They leverage the drugs to obtain the nation status and recognition, EXACTLY of all countries do. I don’t see USA or Europe etc. give away their technology, drugs, power sources etc. Are they all suprematist countries? Or mutants, a minority oppressed and decimated, should be held to a higher standards just because?

They are not even isolationists. Krakoa literally has embassies in every country and trades with every country, exactly like any other democracy.

Wha Xavier said to humans is, there was a time I would have given these drugs to you for free, now we will sell them to you if you recognize our country. JUST LIKE ALL HUMANS NATIONS DO. Do people that says that mutants now are supremacist think that ALL HUMANS ARE BAD?

So, does Magneto saying “you have new gods now” in the context of a political power play makes all the mutants suprematist? Obviously not.

That isn't how evolution works though, the idea that "superior" beings will inevitably replace "inferiors" is Social Darwinist claptrap and has been disproven countless times by the fossil record which shows plenty of seemingly badass creatures going extinct while relatively unimpressive organisms continue to plod along. Survival of the fittest literally means survival of those that fit their environment best, not those that we deem to be better by some arbitrary criteria. Also, modern humans didn't evolve from Neanderthals but rather split off from a common ancestor, and Neanderthals were arguably superior in many ways, being bigger, stronger, and possibly more intelligent as well. It is highly unlikely that they were wiped out in some cataclysmic race war like Morrison depicted, more likely they were simply less able to adapt to the changing climate and the survivors were absorbed into the human gene pool.

[Killerbee911]

This is Elitist/Suprematist Rhetoric. .

Again you are mistaking real life and fiction. All humans(in general overall) are equal in real life, All people are not equal in the fiction. They are people in real life who are born with genes that them make stronger and faster but that isn't elusive to any race, Black people aren't faster, White people aren't smarter, etc. Genetic advantages can be matched if put in the same environment over time, Intelligence advantage can be matched with schooling no "race" in real life has "an advantage" that can't be matched by another race. Why are you guys trying to apply real-life to this part of the fiction. It does not work. Mutants are different(often better) that's the premise of the fiction

Superior

higher in rank, status, or quality.

one that surpasses another in quality or merit

excellent of its kind

and by definition mutants are superior. Anyways moving on I made a mistake earlier you guys mistaking "Value" and "Worth" so we are talking about different things. Worth is countable aka superiority, Value is the quality (positive or negative) that renders something desirable or valuable. There is value to be found in every human but love it or hate it we have different worth.

[DragonsChi]

Again you are mistaking real life and fiction. All humans(in general overall) are equal in real life, All people are not equal in the fiction. They are people in real life who are born with genes that make stronger and faster but that isn't elusive to any race, Black people aren't faster, White people aren't smarter, etc. Genetic advantages can be matched if put in the same environment over time, Intelligence advantage can be matched with schooling no "race" in real life has "an advantage" that can't be matched by another race. Why are guys trying to apply real-life to this part of the fiction. It does not work. Mutants are different that's the premise of the fiction

Superior







and by definition mutants are superior. Anyways moving on I made a mistake earlier you guys mistaking "Value" and "Worth" so we are talking about different things. Worth is countable aka superiority, Value is the quality (positive or negative) that renders something desirable or valuable. There is value to be found in every human but love it or hate it we have different worth.

Your whole argument is false and isn't backed up by anything. And is promoting Elitism/Supremacy wether or not you are meaning to or fully understand it.

There are individuals who are born SMARTER/have higher IQ than others. It's not based on any race but by Genetics. Similar to Mutants being born with powers regardless of race. Those born with the Genetics of higher IQ will never be "caught up" or equal, in terms of intelligence, as those with an average or below average IQ. For many reasons but largely because IQ is not determined by WHAT YOU KNOW but by your ability to learn and apply what is learned quickly, effectively, and consistently.

Time, in terms of the extension of an individual to learn a subject matter, plays no factor in that.

Also, the reason we are applying "real life" with this brand of fiction is because this "fiction" is applying real world and dangerous world views in a semi-positive light and people are clearly going along with it.

The real question you should be asking is 1) Why are you so comfortable in the segregation and elitist views being heavily espoused by "heroes" who were somewhat specifically created to oppose such ideas? 2) Why is this topic to taboo to compare to reality while others such as sex, religion, and other ideas in this very forum(X-Boards) are not?

The answer to that is simple...your argument on the subject matter is faulty and instead of attacking the points you are attempting to change the framework of the discussion. Nice try but its not going to work.


Edit: To add further, this statement right here :

There is value to be found in every human but love it or hate it we have different worth.

Is what justified Blacks be first to die in U.S. infantries in the creation of America. Its what is justified Jews being thrown in gas chambers. Its what is currently justify the detainment and harvesting of certain culture/groups organs. It's what allowed the pushing of ideas like Eugenics. So on and so on.

I fully understand that you may not understand or entirely mean what you are saying and the implications/ramifications such idea's have. However, I strongly encourage you to do more study because the brand of ideas that place one human life worth over another is nothing sort of Supremacist ideology.

[PrezValentine]

This seems to be a sticking point; that Charles' "we will replace you" bit in his speech to the human world is a sign of mutant supremacy. Thought we needed a seperate place to discuss this.

Superheroes in general feel pretty supremacist. What feels different now is just that the X-Men aren't painting it with a pleasant coat of paint.

[Zelena]

Superheroes in general feel pretty supremacist. What feels different now is just that the X-Men aren't painting it with a pleasant coat of paint.

It was generally softened by their altruistic behaviour, they dedicated their time and powers to the common good. If you remove that, well, they aren't particularly sympathetic…

[Glio]

It was generally softened by their altruistic behaviour, they dedicated their time and powers to the common good. If you remove that, well, they aren't particularly sympathetic…

X-Men: They have saved children kidnapped by ORCHIS and it seems they intend to help the people of Arakko.

Marauders: Rescue mutants from countries where they are mistreated

Fallen Angels: They are chasing a mysterious being who is distributing a drug that is killing human children.

X-Force: They are defending themselves from people who want to kill them

Excalibur and New Mutants are the only ones in which you can argue that they do not help the common good.

[PrezValentine]

It was generally softened by their altruistic behaviour, they dedicated their time and powers to the common good. If you remove that, well, they aren't particularly sympathetic…

But they are doing exactly that, as Glio pointed out. Just because Cyclops and Storm sounded bitter at X-Men #1 or Sunspot says what I say every time I'm reminded Elon Musk exists in New Mutants #1, doesn't mean they aren't dedicated to the common good.

[spirit2011]

Your whole argument is false and isn't backed up by anything. And is promoting Elitism/Supremacy wether or not you are meaning to or fully understand it.

There are individuals who are born SMARTER/have higher IQ than others. It's not based on any race but by Genetics. Similar to Mutants being born with powers regardless of race. Those born with the Genetics of higher IQ will never be "caught up" or equal, in terms of intelligence, as those with an average or below average IQ. For many reasons but largely because IQ is not determined by WHAT YOU KNOW but by your ability to learn and apply what is learned quickly, effectively, and consistently.

Time, in terms of the extension of an individual to learn a subject matter, plays no factor in that.

Also, the reason we are applying "real life" with this brand of fiction is because this "fiction" is applying real world and dangerous world views in a semi-positive light and people are clearly going along with it.

The real question you should be asking is 1) Why are you so comfortable in the segregation and elitist views being heavily espoused by "heroes" who were somewhat specifically created to oppose such ideas? 2) Why is this topic to taboo to compare to reality while others such as sex, religion, and other ideas in this very forum(X-Boards) are not?

The answer to that is simple...your argument on the subject matter is faulty and instead of attacking the points you are attempting to change the framework of the discussion. Nice try but its not going to work.


Edit: To add further, this statement right here :



Is what justified Blacks be first to die in U.S. infantries in the creation of America. Its what is justified Jews being thrown in gas chambers. Its what is currently justify the detainment and harvesting of certain culture/groups organs. It's what allowed the pushing of ideas like Eugenics. So on and so on.

I fully understand that you may not understand or entirely mean what you are saying and the implications/ramifications such idea's have. However, I strongly encourage you to do more study because the brand of ideas that place one human life worth over another is nothing sort of Supremacist ideology.

This article is very good about hoxpox and relationship genetics/evolution

http://timplusalex.com/comics/its-no...ry-of-hox-pox/

re, your genes might give you symmetrical face and a strong body, but those aren’t the sole determining factor in who is having children. Changes in fashion, your sense of humour, your personality, even what physiques are considered attractive – these are all cultural forces. Whether your offspring survive long enough to pass on your genes is more due to economic factors and developments in medicine than something as straightforward as their genetically-determined health. Sorry Apocalypse, but from a wholly genetic point of view, “survival of the fittest” is as extinct as the dodo.