Is "Mutants will replace humans" supremacist rhetoric?

[Killerbee911]

Krakoa has done a bit that's bad so far. There's attacking and robbing the Fantastic 4,

So they didn't rob FF they robbed Damage Control. And Damage Control let plans(or sold plans) that can endanger mutants and humans fall into suspect organization hands. Also Reed and Tony don't have control over their dangerous ip is also blame here. Yeah they stole but that how they found out the base with killer robots using tech they shouldn't have from Tony and Reed.

Oh yeah and the guy who did the attacking in stealth mission got punished

and harboring all of the villains,

Wow that sounds bad to me put all the villains away from humans in one place and them making follow rule namely "You can't kill humans".

There's also the Marauders attacking nations not letting mutants into Krakoa;

Marauders attack Russian soldiers who were putting mutants in work prison camps for trying to leave and joining Krakoa

There's also Emma using blackmail and possibly mind control to get UN recognition.

That wasn't official act of Krakoa government that one person going rogue. And that was only one UN vote which she got them to not vote. It was still the will of the majority to vote Krakoa as Nation

Same could be said for X-force; generally new nations don't immediately create black ops outfits to infiltrate other nations

Most developed countries have intelligence units and black ops units. And given the space station with genocide robot, The orchis base they had to attack, and strike force that attack the Krakoa. It seems they have good reason to need a black ops squad


The worse thing is the stuff with Emma and if I remember correctly it was Russia who she messed with given what Russia is doing. Oh well

[terrancejameson]

@DragonsChi I'm trying to get a better grasp of your understanding, but it's still a bit murky to me. At which point of preserving a culture or way of life for a given society cross the line of supremacist rhetoric in your opinion?

[Londo Bellian]

Wow that sounds bad to me put all the villains away from humans in one place and them making follow rule namely "You can't kill humans".

So far, Krakoa Rule #2 or "Kill no human" has been IMHO treated by Krakoans as merely a *Hector Barbossa voice* guideline rather than a stringently enforced regulation. The banishing of Creed under Krakoa seems like only a one-off demonstration to me that may not see a repeat anytime soon.

And doubly so now that the tragedies of X-Force #1 played out, though maybe Xavier set himself up to be murdered in Sokovia so that it can generate Council opinion to give blanket exception to "kill no humans" for certain mutants such as X-Force personnel (per writer interview). Worst-case, eventually while Krakoa Law 2 is still bandied about, no Krakoans will feel obliged to acquiesce to it religiously, and the dark truth could be that all Krakoans will actually have complete power of life and death over any human they feel ill-at-ease with. Xavier can revive as early as the start of Marvel "Incoming," where he is part of the "Deadly Alliance," which MIGHT just imply open season on humans, with Law 2 being a joke.

[Tycon]

Krakoa has done a bit that's bad so far. There's attacking and robbing the Fantastic 4,

There was no direct attack against the Fantastic Four that wasn’t punished. There wasn’t even a robbery of them unless you’re talking about them robbing what had already been robbed (by Damage Control) and no longer under their ownership due to extenuating circumstances (FF recreating worlds and all).

harboring all of the villains, most of whom have shown zero remorse or indication that they're changing their ways.

We know that how? I can count two, so far, that are on the island and causing problems. I can also count Pyro, Black Tom, ••[A]••, Esme Cuckoo, Mondo, Exodus, and Mystique all at least make an outward appearance of helping maintain Krakoa. That’s more than two.

There's also the Marauders attacking nations not letting mutants into Krakoa; if that nation hasn't excepted the trade/amnesty deal, then they had no legal justification for it. Same could be said for X-force; generally new nations don't immediately create black ops outfits to infiltrate other nations.

Oh, those evil bastards. “Attacking” countries by smuggling mutants out of going to labor camps and secretly supplying underprivileged countries with helpful drugs, the horror!

If anything, Krakoa is the X-men giving up. In media res is a terrible story device to use when you are creating an entire nation out of thin air.

They really aren’t. They are about defending mutants from trouble and this is the best way to do it. Also recognize that, like Hickman and countless others have said, Krakoa isn’t just about the X-Men, it’s about all of mutantkind. When stakes are so high that you are dealing with the foundation of a new nation, abandoning a colorblind outdated dream (that Moira’s already proven hasn’t worked) or using mind control to safely secure and legitimize your home is the least of your worries.

[Killerbee911]

So far, Krakoa Rule #2 or "Kill no human" has been IMHO treated by Krakoans as merely a *Hector Barbossa voice* guideline rather than a stringently enforced regulation.
.

Let's not talk feelings. Let's talk facts. Who has the the X-men killed so far

- The terrorists who attack Krakoa and killed civilians and Xavier

- The terrorists on the Orchis base who kidnapped children and was experimenting on them.

- Kwannon and Laura probably killed Hand assassins

.....

The Marauders haven't killed anyone. I don't know what you are talking about really .Which villain has killed someone? Who has the X-men killed so far that shouldn't have died and wasn't in the act of combat where they trying to kill the X-men. I can admit that not everything is good they are so legit issues that will pop up but these topics would go a lot easier if people were not imagining things worse than they really are imo. . But since you might not have been paying attention

HoX 6

Mystique: When they come for us which they will. Won't we do everything to defend ourselves

Magneto :That's the old argument of if it is murder if it's done in the defense of the nation and that is not what be discussed here

Magneto : We will have to deal with that at some point. yes Course but this is not that, Jean is right

The no kill rule is about not killing innocent humans(civilians like the Orchis scientist for example even the damage control guards) not legit enemy combatants. We see so far it varies from Marauders "we will maim the crap out not kill you" to X-force "don't start no ish won't be no ish" with the enemies.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

@Tycoon

Mondo was never a bad guy. The version of him that caused all that trouble in Generation X was an evil clone made by Black Tom.

[Tycon]

@Tycoon

Mondo was never a bad guy. The version of him that caused all that trouble in Generation X was an evil clone made by Black Tom.

The Mondo that was with Gen X was the clone. That’s why when the real Mondo showed up with Black Tom, he talked about how he never met the team.

[Kintor]

The no kill rule is about not killing innocent humans(civilians like the Orchis scientist for example even the damage control guards) not legit enemy combatants. We see so far it varies from Marauders "we will maim the crap out not kill you" to X-force "don't start no ish won't be no ish" with the enemies.

That's funny, I don't recall Xavier or the Quiet Council putting caveats or asterisks next to their rules. Number 2 seems pretty straightforward to me, don't kill humans - period. The fact that the more aggresive mutants are already looking for loopholes around this rule shows that at least one of Krakoa's guiding principles is simply unworkable. Because we all know this is going to end in mass slaughter sooner or later. After all, when the mutants no longer see themselves as human it just gets that much easier to commit murder on their fellow man with a guilt free conscience.

[DragonsChi]

@DragonsChi I'm trying to get a better grasp of your understanding, but it's still a bit murky to me. At which point of preserving a culture or way of life for a given society cross the line of supremacist rhetoric in your opinion?

When you spout nonsense that your culture or way of life is superior to others instead of it be just a path you and yours choose to follow.

And/or when that same culture or way of life is implied that any other way of life that is not your own will die or be killed off.

And/or when your way of life promotes FEAR and/or HATE as excuse's to harm another individual either Physically, Emotionally, Economically, or any other way that would intentionally do harm to an individual for not sharing your view.

[BroHomo]

When you spout nonsense that your culture or way of life is superior to others instead of it be just a path you and yours choose to follow.

And/or when that same culture or way of life is implied that any other way of life that is not your own will die or be killed off.

And/or when your way of life promotes FEAR and/or HATE as excuse's to harm another individual either Physically, Emotionally, Economically, or any other way that would intentionally do harm to an individual for not sharing your view.

Damn that's like all of the "developed" world

[Killerbee911]

That's funny, I don't recall Xavier or the Quiet Council putting caveats or asterisks next to their rules. Number 2 seems pretty straightforward to me, don't kill humans - period. The fact that the more aggresive mutants are already looking for loopholes around this rule shows that at least one of Krakoa's guiding principles is simply unworkable. .

It is not looking for a loophole it is clarifying what is being talk about. They are creating laws, You seem to think that clarifying the difference between "Killing someone in self defense" and "Murder" is an issue. It would be highly irresponsible of any government and law makers not to state the difference between the two. But putting X-men aside for second are you saying that all homicides should be treated the same? You saying the women kills her abusive husband charging at her with knife should be treated the same as serial killer who killed a girl for fun? Besides How many amendments to the US constitution are they? I guess the US was looking for loopholes right? Laws need a certain preciseness or people get screwed (see Sabertooth)

Because we all know this is going to end in mass slaughter sooner or later. After all, when the mutants no longer see themselves as human it just gets that much easier to commit murder on their fellow man with a guilt free conscience.

This is all going to end mass slaughter? I keep telling people these topics would go easier if we stop pretending the worst thing happening.

I guess easy for Humans to commit murder on their fellow man guilt with free conscience because they don't see mutants as human right? It make it easy for them keep to creating robots that committed mass genocide on mutants, turn on mutants start attacking when an alien gas start to make mutants sick and sterilizing them and try commit genocide by sterilize mutantkind with a vaccine. What you seem to forget is mutants already have enough reason to slaughter humans guilt free. I will keep saying the narrative has been f*cking mutants for years now. Mutants already have justification to go wild and guess what they haven't so let's just quit with those theories and leaving the mass murdering to humans who are very good at it. Everything you guys are predicting mutants to do Humans have been doing for years to mutants.

[Kintor]

This is all going to end mass slaughter? I keep telling people these topics would go easier if we stop pretending the worst thing happening.

I guess easy for Humans to commit murder on their fellow man guilt with free conscience because they don't see mutants as human right? It make it easy for them keep to creating robots that committed mass genocide on mutants, turn on mutants start attacking when an alien gas start to make mutants sick and sterilizing them and try commit genocide by sterilize mutantkind with a vaccine. What you seem to forget is mutants already have enough reason to slaughter humans guilt free. I will keep saying the narrative has been f*cking mutants for years now. Mutants already have justification to go wild and guess what they haven't so let's just quit with those theories and leaving the mass murdering to humans who are very good at it. Everything you guys are predicting mutants to do Humans have been doing for years to mutants.

I don't suppose you've ever head the expression "two wrongs don't make a right"? It basically means that just because someone has committed a crime doesn't mean that you now have free reign to commit further crimes in turn. The mistreatment of mutants should give you pause, about the dangers of dehumanizing your opponent and how it enables violence and death all too easily. Instead you're gleefully condoning the way that mutants declare themselves no longer human. This turn of events should raise a red flag even amongst the most ardent X-Men fans, when the supposedly heroic mutants are now dehumanising (for lack of a better term) their enemies as well.

[Killerbee911]

I don't suppose you've ever head the expression "two wrongs don't make a right"? It basically means that just because someone has committed a crime doesn't mean that you now have free reign to commit further crimes in turn. The mistreatment of mutants should give you pause, about the dangers of dehumanizing your opponent and how it enables violence and death all too easily. Instead you're gleefully condoning the way that mutants declare themselves no longer human. This turn of events should raise a red flag even amongst the most ardent X-Men fans, when the supposedly heroic mutants are now dehumanising (for lack of a better term) their enemies as well.

If by gleefully condoning you mean I am happy for X-men and mutants unapologetically claiming who and what you are and not hide it to make some people feel comfortable then I am fine with that. These turns of events shouldn't raise a red flag if you have been reading books they have kept escalating and making the X-men and mutants lose with no hope of improvement. The actions of mutants and the X-men make sense in the context of everything that has happened to them over the last 4 or 6 years in their history. I am not supporting every action that is happening inside of the X-men/Krakoa run I think they could have handle Creed better, I think the villains being on the Island is a mistake,etc. But I understand the moves they are making because they have been pushed to this place by Human actions.

[Glio]

You know, in all the countries I know "Do not kill humans" is also a law and yet the police and the army carry weapons and are willing to use them.

There are always exceptions.

[Kintor]

If by gleefully condoning you mean I am happy for X-men and mutants unapologetically claiming who and what you are and not hide it to make some people feel comfortable then I am fine with that. These turns of events shouldn't raise a red flag if you have been reading books they have kept escalating and making the X-men and mutants lose with no hope of improvement. The actions of mutants and the X-men make sense in the context of everything that has happened to them over the last 4 or 6 years in their history. I am not supporting every action that is happening inside of the X-men/Krakoa run I think they could have handle Creed better, I think the villains being on the Island is a mistake,etc. But I understand the moves they are making because they have been pushed to this place by Human actions.

To say that mutants have only started down this dark path because humans forced them to is only an attempt to absolve Xavier of all responsibility. Especially when you consider that the existence of Krakoa has less to do with any past injustices perpetrated against mutants and more to do with Moira's experience that the worst is yet to come.

That Krakoa and all the evil committed in this nation's name is a desperate bid survival, predicated under the assumption that a genocidal war between mutants and the rest of humanity/AI is inevitable. The kicker with all this is that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, the highly aggressive actions undertaken by the X-Men necessitates an aggressive response in return from humanity.

To that end, if you’re willing to claim credit for the X-Men founding their own nation you must take the good with the bad. To the mutants Xavier is freeing their people and giving them a homeland, to the rest of the world they are losing millions of their citizens to a secretive cult operating out of a rouge nation. It’s simply a question of whether Xavier is able to control the forces he has unleashed or once again mutants will be swept away by the tide of history.