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  1. #16
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    Were they ever really a metaphor for immigration? Given the Alpha Primitives, they’ve generally read more as commentary on the idea of utopia.
    How intelligent the Alpha Primitives always varied. Kirby probably intended them to be not much more intelligent than service dogs or horse's drawing carriages.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Also, in Power of X they make a comparison with the wolf and the sheep and what "dominant species" really means.

    Mutants only need to be 10% of the Earth's population to be the dominant species because they have so many more superpower individuals.

  3. #18
    Incredible Member Force de Phenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    It was always weird having Inhumans be a metaphor for immigration when they were a classist society. It came off more as colonization with them bringing disease to wipe out natives rather than indigenous Americans looking for a new home.
    Thanos was going to kill them, so Black Bolt released Terrigen to make more inhumans for protection. When were they classist in Inhumanity and after? Everyone was welcomed to Attilan, even mutants. They became a democracy and the story brought more diversity into Marvel comics (Moongirl, Ms. Marvel, Mosaic, almost every nuhuman). The classist part of their lore was supposed to teach readers that tradition and culture is no excuse to have a classist society and they mention it several times in their history.

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Force de Phenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    Were they ever really a metaphor for immigration? Given the Alpha Primitives, they’ve generally read more as commentary on the idea of utopia.
    They were. They were new, and people saw them as invaders when they were people all along. They were very intolerant towards them and blamed them for everything wrong.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    "OK Boomer" is the current real-life equivalent of what Chuck said.

    Inhumans were a metaphor for corporate greed and pettiness. Now, they're a metaphor for losers.

  6. #21
    In the wobbly seat The Quiet Councilor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    They were. They were new, and people saw them as invaders when they were people all along. They were very intolerant towards them and blamed them for everything wrong.
    The conquistadors were new too and also people. I’m failing to see the inhumans as anything but a meditation on classism and the impossibility of a “perfect” society.

  7. #22
    Fantastic Member The Thunderbird's Avatar
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    I know that this supremacist rhetoric for humans who cite this as their justification for persecuting mutants. But do mutants really have to replace humans? I know in real life evolution the successor does not always replace the predecessor organisms. Like lizards for example had organisms such as snakes and even mosasaurs evolve from them. Yet the beginning of snakes did not necessarily mean the end of lizards and the mosasaurs died out while traditional lizards carry on to this day. Evolution is a tree where new organisms branch out, not a ladder where new organisms replace old ones.

  8. #23
    Incredible Member Force de Phenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    The conquistadors were new too and also people. I’m failing to see the inhumans as anything but a meditation on classism and the impossibility of a “perfect” society.
    That's where your problem lies. If you can't separate one person's actions from a people, how can you make progress? If someone is from a country that doesn't allow same sex marriage, should each person be called homophobic? The US outlawed it until recently, does that mean all Americans were homophobic, or that the system was homophobic?

    I suggest reading "Right of Birth" and Fantastic Four 51-54 for anyone who doesn't understand the "inhumans" concept in Marvel Comics.


  9. #24
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    It’s accepted as a scientific inevitability, so no, that’s not the bottom line. It doesn’t work “IRL” because there hasn’t been a comparable scenario since we wiped out the Neanderthal.
    1. We didn't wipe out the Neanderthals IRL. Morrison run with an hypothesis in his story but the fact is, we scarcely know what caused the disappearance of Neanderthals over time in our world.
    2. It does work. Science - no matter how sketchy or accurate - being used to support this type of rhetoric happens all the time, even to this day. Typical springboard for démagogues and extremists of all kind.
    3. In-universe, scientific inevitability is irrelevant, cue the reference I made to Hickman's F4 run with their look at Ben Grimm's future. I needn't go that far though, Moira's various lives already showed that, much more recently.

    Charles Xavier is an intelligent man, he knows the future is not written in stone - first hand actually. So him purpoting that mutants WILL replace sapiens is both a fallacy and an assertion that their kind is obsolete compared to his, at best.
    That is supremacist rhetoric. In-universe science supporting his discourse doesn't change that.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    There was a part of the fanbase that adopted demagoguery when they thought the inhumans were taking over. That's why the inhumans served as a metaphor for immigrants and refugees. It showed how they learned nothing from reading X-Men. Marvel took advantage and made DoX, etc. In the real world, not all minorities work together, and it was reflected in the comics.

    Mutants are the next step in evolution, so humans won't be replaced, but it's their next phase. Like how humans developed speech and thumbs.
    Surely the immigration metaphor was more the Nuhumans moving into the Inhuman cities (because BB removed all other options) and not really fitting into the Inhuman caste system?

  11. #26
    In the wobbly seat The Quiet Councilor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    That's where your problem lies. If you can't separate one person's actions from a people, how can you make progress? If someone is from a country that doesn't allow same sex marriage, should each person be called homophobic? The US outlawed it until recently, does that mean all Americans were homophobic, or that the system was homophobic?

    I suggest reading "Right of Birth" and Fantastic Four 51-54 for anyone who doesn't understand the "inhumans" concept in Marvel Comics.

    I don’t have a problem. I’m talking about the Inhumans as a concept, and as a concept, they make one helluva tone deaf metaphor for immigration. You can point to specific stories or characters, but that’s not the same thing.

  12. #27
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    "That ain't a threat, it's a promise!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    That's what I have over Beelzebub now, Honoka-chan. He thinks he's a third-year school idol. I know what I am. And in this fight-- that makes me INVINCIBLE!

  13. #28
    Incredible Member Domino_Dare-Doll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    No, it’s not since it’s generally accepted as an inevitability by mutants and humans alike.

    Magneto’s rhetoric, though, is supremacist.
    Yeah, I agree with this stance. In terms of evolution, no, the idea of your offspring evolving isn't supremacist...that being said, that doesn't mean that others won't use it for ill, or twist the concept for their own agenda.

  14. #29
    Incredible Member Force de Phenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    Surely the immigration metaphor was more the Nuhumans moving into the Inhuman cities (because BB removed all other options) and not really fitting into the Inhuman caste system?
    It was like, one day to another people saw inhumans everywhere on Earth, and was afraid they were strange people that were taking over. People thought they were mutants, and they basically were. The concept would've worked better if DoX had never taken place.

  15. #30
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    A gene implanted by giant aliens in metal suits for use as an anti-body is not evolution, no more that the kree’a failed bio weapon is.

    The end result of the path of technology we’ve been on since the first caveman used a sharpened piece of wood/bone/stone to scratch himself probably had more claim to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    It was like, one day to another people saw inhumans everywhere on Earth, and was afraid they were strange people that were taking over. People thought they were mutants, and they basically were. The concept would've worked better if DoX had never taken place.
    It would have worked better had Marvel never tried to use the Inhumans push against the X-Men. It was a fools errand that doomed us

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