Is "Mutants will replace humans" supremacist rhetoric?

[CoCoBandz]

The amount of mental gymnastics that posters use to defend humanity's attempts at genocide is more amusing than disheartening. It's gotten to the point where I would love to see someone like Hickman/Ewing/Cates/etc. write an event where humans face a Decimation-type of situation where baseline humans are all but wiped out and the heroes plead to the nation of Krakoa for help and refuge. The panel where Xavier/Magneto/Krakoan Council laugh at them and hang up the line would be priceless.

See the thing is if it ever came to that Krakoa would probably definitely help. Why? Because they're just better than that and they've proven so time and time again.

Although several of these posters in this thread itself will nitpick at any little inconsequential detail to tell you otherwise.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

See the thing is if it ever came to that Krakoa would probably definitely help. Why? Because they're just better than that and they've proven so time and time again.

Although several of these posters in this thread itself will nitpick at any little inconsequential detail to tell you otherwise.

Any absolutist notion should be challenged often and always and without regard for partisan punditry. Otherwise, it becomes authoritarianism, and the rule of the strong. If the mere act of being questioned ever elicits anger and the desire to silence your questioners, then you might not be the good guy.

[PsychoEFrost]

Any absolutist notion should be challenged often and always and without regard for partisan punditry. Otherwise, it becomes authoritarianism, and the rule of the strong. If the mere act of being questioned ever elicits anger and the desire to silence your questioners, then you might not be the good guy.

Maybe because none of you are debating in remotely good faith. You have made up your mind with zero evidence that the current run is "non-canon", "propaganda" "radicalizing children into becoming fascists". You made up your mind long before you posted in here, and you're damn well sure not gonna change because of little things like "facts" and "current reality".

[CoCoBandz]

Maybe because none of you are debating in remotely good faith. You have made up your mind with zero evidence that the current run is "non-canon", "propaganda" "radicalizing children into becoming fascists". You made up your mind long before you posted in here, and you're damn well sure not gonna change because of little things like "facts" and "current reality".

Exactly! Nuff said.

Now we can all move along.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Maybe because none of you are debating in remotely good faith. You have made up your mind with zero evidence that the current run is "non-canon", "propaganda" "radicalizing children into becoming fascists". You made up your mind long before you posted in here, and you're damn well sure not gonna change because of little things like "facts" and "current reality".

I like the story. I like the shades of grey it's introduced into an ordinarily black and white, 'with us or against us' viewpoint. This is the best the X brand has been in years, and engaged readers indulging in passionate argument is a fantastic thing, much better than the dead silence of the disinterested.

Speaking for myself, I haven't dug my heals in on anything other than mutants as a whole wielding far more power and authority on a scale that is utterly bonkers, yet always claiming underdog status. Chuck's son is a literal god who can re-write natural law and history according to his whims. Chuck's daughter is going to inherit a stellar Empire bigger than the milky way. Through his children, Chuck is the most powerful and influential earthling to ever exist. Chuck is not an underdog. Chuck is a fricken' godhead.

[Killerbee911]

Maybe because none of you are debating in remotely good faith. You have made up your mind with zero evidence that the current run is "non-canon", "propaganda" "radicalizing children into becoming fascists". You made up your mind long before you posted in here, and you're damn well sure not gonna change because of little things like "facts" and "current reality".

I keep waiting for the X-men to do something to cross the line, I think every reader with common sense knows the something is coming but the actual bad guys keep making it easy to justify anything the X-men are doing

- They raided an Orchis base-It had a Mother Master mold
- They killed some enemies in X-force- The enemies killed 33 people and Xavier
-They attack an Orchis base- The Orchis base had mutant children being experimented on
-Kitty maimed soldiers- The soldiers were sending mutants to prison work camps for trying to leave and shooting live ammo at Kitty's Friends

I am reasonable enough to see that set up isn't all rainbows. And it is clear that Shaw, Apocalypse ,Mr Sinister and heck even Magneto have their own agenda that might not end up being on the side of light but nothing so far has happened. For the X-men being "the evil empire" so far it has been light on evil. The only thing that has happened is the Mutants (X-men) has taken slight more aggressive stance and aren't pretending that they can live happily ever with baseline humans.The answer for me why the X-men are acting different is last couple of years stories of push the X-men to this point. How many times have mutants on whole have to be endangered for them to act different?

[Agent Z]

But if quirks are just a natural extension of your body, having to be licensed in order to be yourself is pretty gnarly! IIRC there's a law in the MHA universe that prevents public use of quirks, not even accounting for self-defense. Plus the government documenting your abilities and how to best contain you, knowing your identity, and all the slow bureaucracy. No good.

The government already has information about us. Social security, phone numbers, passports, birth certificates etc.

[powerpax]

Just say that it doesn’t matter how many times elements of humanity work to kill, enslave or exterminate mutants - mutants are not allowed to fight back or take an aggressive stance like form a nation-state. They are not allowed to treat humanity as other or lesser based on their actions. They are not allowed to have any economic or material advantage that would disadvantage humanity. They are not allowed to organize en masse, the same way ‘good and evil’ humans have time and again for political or military gain. They are only allowed to turn the other cheek and “be the bigger person” to make the rest of the MU and the readership feel comfortable.

Just admit that is essentially the baseline position of most of the people unhappy with the current launch, because otherwise people are going in endless circles arguing here. And if that is in any way not the position being essentially expressed, then please explain to me what is inaccurate about what I wrote and what mutants are allowed to do.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Just say that it doesn’t matter how many times elements of humanity work to kill, enslave or exterminate mutants - mutants are not allowed to fight back or take an aggressive stance like form a nation-state. They are not allowed to treat humanity as other or lesser based on their actions. They are not allowed to have any economic or material advantage that would disadvantage humanity. They are not allowed to organize en masse, the same way ‘good and evil’ humans have time and again for political or military gain. They are only allowed to turn the other cheek and “be the bigger person” to make the rest of the MU and the readership feel comfortable.

Just admit that is essentially the baseline position of most of the people unhappy with the current launch, because otherwise people are going in endless circles arguing here. And if that is in any way not the position being essentially expressed, then please explain to me what is inaccurate about what I wrote and what mutants are allowed to do.

Yeah, that's not remotely the issue.

It's more a case of: people shouldn't treat other people as lesser because, ya know, it's shitty.

[powerpax]

Everything is declared unacceptable or countered with some other random mutant-driven event, and the only reason I can see to do that on every single point is to argue this state of affairs simply should not be allowed for mutants. “If mutants have been exterminated, well, what about Legion or the Scarlet Witch?” (Who have almost never been affiliated with the X-Men or mutantdom) “If mutants want to fight for geopolitical or economic equity or even advantage - like any powerful human nation-state already does every year, everyday - then they’re violating their own dream.”

Okay. So if mutants are not allowed to hold humanity accountable for its actions against their people in even geopolitical or economic terms, then what specifically are they allowed to do about changing their endless continuum of extermination, marginalization and disenfranchisement? Just keep dreaming harder and being nicer? And if not, then what? What would be acceptable for an oppressed people that the human civilization of the Marvel Universe regularly works to wipe out? Because no, platitudes like “don’t be mean” or “call it even” are not an answer. And also, with mutants and humans it has never been even.

And speaking of not being X or Y: Why is it the moral responsibility of mutants to still behave the same way they did towards humans in the ‘80s, after two decades of increasingly vicious human assaults on their entire race? Just because Kitty Pryde made some warm all-inclusive speeches in 1986 or something? We all read and loved the same books, but things have changed. I’m honestly asking: why is it an absolute necessity that an oppressed, preyed upon minority always stay static in its response to heightened violent assault?

We can go round and round and tick off event after event and claim each issue is tit for tat with mutants and humans, but I’ve yet to hear anyone explain the above answers to me. That’s all I want to know, is why. If I’m wrong, please, I am all ears as to why.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Everything is declared unacceptable or countered with some other random mutant-driven event, and the only reason I can see to do that on every single point is to argue this state of affairs simply should not be allowed for mutants. “If mutants have been exterminated, well, what about Legion or the Scarlet Witch?” (Who have almost never been affiliated with the X-Men or mutantdom) “If mutants want to fight for geopolitical or economic equity or even advantage - like any powerful human nation-state already does every year, everyday - then they’re violating their own dream.”

Okay. So if mutants are not allowed to hold humanity accountable for its actions against their people in even geopolitical or economic terms, then what specifically are they allowed to do about changing their endless continuum of extermination, marginalization and disenfranchisement? Just keep dreaming harder and being nicer? What would be acceptable for an oppressed people that the human civilization of the Marvel Universe regularly works to wipe out? Because no, platitudes like “don’t be mean” or “call it even” are not an answer. And also, with mutants and humans it has never been even.

How about this: hold humanity accountable for it's actions but don't distance themselves from it. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach; have a safe stronghold, but don't tar everyone with the same brush when it's undeserved. Go after the institutions and individuals responsible, but don't internalise all the hate and bile that they've thrown mutants way and feel like they should be forced to up and leave. Have just as much effort fighting to keep communities together and united within the mutant-human front as well as the mutant-mutant ones.

And most importantly; treat others how you want to be treated if they haven't harmed you first.

Balance and nuance.

[powerpax]

How about this: hold humanity accountable for it's actions but don't distance themselves from it. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing approach; have a safe stronghold, but don't tar everyone with the same brush when it's undeserved.

They still have human friends and relatives. We know this and have already seen it.

Have just as much effort fighting to keep communities together and united within the mutant-human front as well as the mutant-mutant ones. .

Why should mutant/human communities be the first priority after the last 20 years? Or the last 50? Why can’t it be the less important position? Storm has a life outside Krakoa, but she is still devoted to the mutant nation first. Why is that unacceptable?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

They still have human friends and relatives. We know this and have already seen it.

We've seen a passing glimpse of it, if that and even then it didn't come off particularly genuine, informative or otherwise. And even then, that's one family (two if you count Jubilee and Shogo as an ongoing case,) what about the others? The Guthries, Laura and her aunt/cousins, families who don't want to have to choose between one location and the other or to be split up, because a new nation is completely different from a boarding school.

Why should mutant/human communities be the first priority after the last 20 years? Or the last 50? Why can’t it be the less important position? Storm has a life outside Krakoa, but she is still devoted to the mutant nation first. Why is that unacceptable?

Well why shouldn't it be? Both can be on equal footing without diminishing each other's cause. Why can't progress come at both ends, a compromise. And even then, I argue it is important because of the aforementioned familial ties between mutants and, as many have pointed out, mutants are still humans despite bigots' attempts to distance themselves from them. You can still get a human child from two mutants, so if those born there truly aren't to be shunned then it's reasonable to think that there might be a potential human community on Krakoa at some point; how does it not make sense to plan ahead for such scenarios? That's true co-existence!!

[powerpax]

We've seen a passing glimpse of it, if that and even then it didn't come off particularly genuine, informative or otherwise. And even then, that's one family (two if you count Jubilee and Shogo as an ongoing case,) what about the others? The Guthries, Laura and her aunt/cousins, families who don't want to have to choose between one location and the other or to be split up, because a new nation is completely different from a boarding school.

They’ve shown it, though. How many months and examples will you need to find it believable? And speaking of, when will be seeing any example of your hypothetical scenario above?

Both can be on equal footing without diminishing each other's cause. Why can't progress come at both ends, a compromise.

Why is it mutants’ responsibility to prioritize human equity first in their civilization after decades of mass murder and disenfranchisement at the hands of other humans? Why can they not put their own safety and prosperity first, and humans second after Genosha, Rosenberg’s run, the Purifiers et al? Just tell me why they shouldn’t put humans in second position after the last twenty years, that’s all I want to know. If mutants had killed sixteen million humans and perpetuated systemic violence against them for years after, would Tony Stark and the human heroes be wrong to close their borders?

[BroHomo]

The Guthries, Laura and her aunt/cousins, families who don't want to have to choose between one location and the other or to be split up, because a nation is completely different from a boarding school.

In regards to families being separated how is it different? And the fact that there's literal portals leading directly to Krakoa it's considerably less 'traumatic' than boarding school

mutants are still humans despite bigots' attempts to distance themselves from them.

uh who are the bigots here? Mutants? Pro Krakoans? Lawd

You can still get a human child from two mutants, so if those born there truly aren't to be shunned then it's reasonable to think that there might be a potential human community on Krakoa at some point; how does it not make sense to plan ahead for such scenarios? That's true co-existence!!

lol yes 1st step to nation building is to plan for a hypothetical population

They’ve shown it, though. How many months and examples will you need to find it believable? And speaking of, when will be seeing any example of your hypothetical scenario above?

lol it literally doesn't matter how much of some posters suspicion of Krakoa gets debunked on panel.the fact that 'Mutants are doing it for themselves' seems to make them uncomfortable/angry .

Why is it mutants’ responsibility to prioritize human equity first in their civilization after decades of mass murder and disenfranchisement at the hands of other humans? Why can they not put their own safety and prosperity first, and humans second after Genosha, Rosenberg’s run, the Purifiers et al? Just tell me why they shouldn’t put humans in second position after the last twenty years, that’s all I want to know.

Yas! This all day. Every day lol