Is "Mutants will replace humans" supremacist rhetoric?

[PwrdOn]

Not sure this is even true. For example, support for the Kurds having their own country is pretty high among a lot of folks who would call themselves on the left.

There have been many new countries in recent decades based literally around "nations" wanting "their own" state. It's not necessarily even an "ideology".

Again we got into questions of practicalities: are non-mutants allowed into Krakoa whatsoever? What circumstances? Does Krakoa want peace with the world or to control/dominate/invade it? Does Krakoa trade with the world? Offer it things? Why was Krakoa formed in the first place? Is there legitimate impetus for its formation? What is the alternative for mutantkind? Haven't we witnessed what mutants go through in the absence of a Krakoa over decades of comic stories?

I do think it's valid to point out how similar Krakoa feels to Genosha... it's actually really strange since Moira V literally was exactly that, an attempt to create a Genosha type situation and supposedly it failed badly. So how is this fundamentally distinct? So far it doesn't really seem like it except in mild tinkering-around-the-edges ways. But I guess we'll find out.

It's not a left/right thing, nationalism has obviously been a potent political force among many groups of people over the years, but there has never been a situation where you can make a clean break without causing a boatload of new problems to arise. To use your example, sure it's easy to say that the Kurds should have their own state, but the reality on the ground is that they are split up among four different countries in an extremely volatile part of the world, and much of the territory that they claim is shared with other ethnic groups that aren't exactly on board with Kurdish nationalist aspirations. And probably most importantly, there isn't really any kind of unified Kurdish leadership, and there is a complex network of rival parties all vying for power, often prioritizing internal politics over external threats. Trying to forcibly carve out a Kurdish homeland in the current political climate, especially one backed by Western interests, would be a catastrophic disaster that would create many more problems than it would solve. And you can go up and down the list of nationalist movements and you'll find similar problems with every last one.

[spirit2011]

And History of the Marvel Universe ends with Franklin Richards, a mutant, as the last living being in the universe.

Immortal Hulk also mentions that he had to kill Franklin Richards to usurp his position in that future.

"Genocide robots kill all mutants" is not a natural process. It is an artificial way to avoid it. Nature vs Technology is another Hix-men theme.

We never really see it happening. at this point I treat it as some kind of mutant wishing it to be true

Franklin is one of the mos tpowerful being on universe, yet he wasn't the last human on immortal hulk

[Midnight_v]

To the Op:

Yeah it is.

Thats why sometimes seems like "what if". What if Moira just convinced Charles the Dream was dead.

But yeah for years and years the X-men fought magnetos mutant supremacy rhetoric and now they're all "We will replace you".

Yet... if we're honest thats not "Natural" either. Its a celestial manipulation. Just like how the "Deviants" had totally won everything on earth till the host returned and wiped them out.
Natural. Smh.
No different from if the terrigenesis cloud from kree manipulation circled the world and didn't kill mutant but changed so many humans into INHUMANS that THEY were the dominant genome.

Think about that. If the same thing happened but it was the inhumans just "Breeding the mutants out" post clouds, it would be a 4 alarm fire around here.

So yeah its Mutant Supremacy, and demagoguery, but the current X-fans don't really care, nor do they care that the X-books aren't really superheroes anymore, no more:
"Protecting a world that hates and fear them"
They've been getting beat down and had their noses rubbed in the dirt too long and so a win... ANY win. Is just wholesale embraced.

Anybody remember Maximus Lobo, saying basically the same ****? The much maligned Dominant Species arc?
Everyone know that this is super-baddy talk, they just wanna ignore it, no one, not mutants, not humans, not inhumans, no one gets to "deserve" vengeance".

[Wild Fang X]

Honestly, it's safe to say the majority of the world's problems are because of flatscans, and the fact that people are saying that mutants are supposed to just take it lying down and be cool with it. On a moral level, I can't see why I should empathize and/or sympathize with baselines at this point.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Honestly, it's safe to say the majority of the world's problems are because of flatscans, and the fact that people are saying that mutants are supposed to just take it lying down and be cool with it. On a moral level, I can't see why I should empathize and/or sympathize with baselines at this point.

No-one's saying that; you're grossly over-simplifying the issue.

[useridgoeshere]

Think about that. If the same thing happened but it was the inhumans just "Breeding the mutants out" post clouds, it would be a 4 alarm fire around here.

This just isn't true. Mutants don't give birth to inhumans. Inhumans had to actively murder and sterilize Mutants, turn the world against Mutants, and threaten war if Mutants defended themselves. Mutants don't need to do anything except avoid being wiped out by genocide. Thus the need for Krakoa. They aren't doing anything to humans, other than saying, "Thanks Mom and Dad, we'll take it from here. I'm going to move in with my buddies. Please stop killing us."

[hulkling]

This just isn't true. Mutants don't give birth to inhumans. Inhumans had to actively murder and sterilize Mutants, turn the world against Mutants, and threaten war if Mutants defended themselves. Mutants don't need to do anything except avoid being wiped out by genocide. Thus the need for Krakoa. They aren't doing anything to humans, other than saying, "Thanks Mom and Dad, we'll take it from here. I'm going to move in with my buddies. Please stop killing us."

Sinister said that the inhuman genes were superior, he tried to create a mutant /inhuman hybrid and all trace of the mutant gene was eliminated once exposed to terrigen

About “they aren’t taking anything from humans” they are polluting otherworld that belongs to all Great Britain , destroying its magic and probably stealing it.

[powerpax]

Please cite your source for that claim.

[hulkling]

About the Inhuman > mutant genetics Extraordinary X-men 5 , the clone of ciclops that was overtaken by the Inhuman DNA.

the second one Excalibur 1 where Morgan says that the source of magic of avalon is being polluted by the mutantkind. Now we know that it wasnt accidental, Apocalyse planed pollute and probably steal the magic of Avalon.

[Electricmastro]

But yeah for years and years the X-men fought magnetos mutant supremacy rhetoric

Yeah, regardless of whether mutant succession of humans is inevitable or not, in speaking about solely what Stan Lee wrote in laying the foundation for the X-Men in the early 1960s for the moment, some people seem to forget that Magneto repeatedly stated how he wanted to conquer over the humans and make them his slaves. He certainly didn't start the fire of prejudice towards mutants, but him adding fuel to the fire is definitely another matter entirely, and him admitting that he's a reason why mutants were unjustly feared at his trial definitely says quite a bit about that.

Also, even when Stan Lee and Jack Kirby introduced the Sentinels, they were still framed around this idea of mutants enslaving humans, as evidenced with Bolivar Trask's newspaper article, which in turn is surely based on Otto Binder's 1953 article regarding how mutants may rise up from nuclear war to enslave and even kill off humans.

This is not to justify anti-mutant campaigns.

This is not to justify mutant slavery.

This is not to justify mutant genocide.

This is not to justify any other sort of atrocity against mutants.

This is merely emphasizing on what Stan Lee and Jack Kirby may had been likely influenced in their creation of the X-Men and regards to why humans fear mutants in the first place, and while that was over 50 years ago, I don't think it can be denied that at least portions of their ideas and mindsets that they laid down in their foundation still persist up to this day, which I think is important to consider and constructively analyze despite how some may say that Stan and Jack's X-Men stories they created themselves weren't that good and aren't worth bothering with. If current human/mutant relations are wonky, then maybe that has to due with a wonky foundation that was laid down at the start.

And later writers may emphasize on how the oppression of mutants is simply due to prejudice, though even then, people aren't born with prejudice, but are made for them, by someone who wants, and is also negatively influenced by, something. If there's any one lesson I've learned in researching the history of prejudice, it's that it's never simple and straightforward, and that even the most prejudiced leaders in history didn't form their prejudices in a vacuum. There's always someone out there fearfully accusing someone else of contributing towards a problem, even if there's no solid evidence to back up those concerns and fears, and that can evidently lead those part of the next generation into foolishly believing that that someone else is unwarrantably the problem. I think that just as this can be evident in real life, this can also be more evident in the X-Men comics if the writers reflected it more.

[powerpax]

the second one Excalibur 1 where Morgan says that the source of magic of avalon is being polluted by the mutantkind.

Morgan le Fay is an ancient supervillain who detests 'witchbreed'/mutants. Her opinion, not fact. She is the antagonist in story.

Now we know that it wasnt accidental, Apocalyse planed pollute and probably steal the magic of Avalon.

Also supposition, not fact. But you can side with le Fay if you like.

[king of hybrids]

Doesn’t it being confirmed that 2099, which feature the near-extermination of most of the current crop of non-mutant superhumans and the repression of mutants after a rebellion/pogrom, as the default future (albeit subject to alteration) of 616 indicate that not only will Mutants not replace baselines, but Novissma won’t either.

[Huntsman Spider]

Honestly, it's safe to say the majority of the world's problems are because of flatscans, and the fact that people are saying that mutants are supposed to just take it lying down and be cool with it. On a moral level, I can't see why I should empathize and/or sympathize with baselines at this point.

No-one's saying that; you're grossly over-simplifying the issue.

The last issue or so of Immortal Hulk would say otherwise. I mean, Bruce Banner even laid it out himself that human lust for wealth and power above all else is what's going to doom human society, and while civilizations like Krakoa and Wakanda are far closer to solving the ills resulting from that than any other on Earth, the alienation they've suffered over the years from the rest of the world means that they'll very likely just leave the rest of humanity to drown in the mess and filth of its own corruption when crunch time comes. Dario Agger, the Minotaur CEO of Roxxon who sold out Earth to Malekith and his forces during the War of the Realms, pointed out that nobody "important" really gave a damn about Roxxon's evil and corruption even after that act of treason and the corporation thus continued to turn a profit. When you have that going on and so many within human society willing to acquiesce to it, how exactly are you supposed to look at such a world and think that's something worth preserving or defending?

[Huntsman Spider]

Doesn’t it being confirmed that 2099, which feature the near-extermination of most of the current crop of non-mutant superhumans and the repression of mutants after a rebellion/pogrom, as the default future (albeit subject to alteration) of 616 indicate that not only will Mutants not replace baselines, but Novissma won’t either.

Novissima is supposed to be centuries off into the future. 2099 is less than one century (80 years) away. That said, you raise a good point, as the original backstory for 2099 was ultimately that the "Heroic Age" didn't end in some great cataclysm, but instead due to too much distrust, infighting, and corruption among the heroes. Even the flashback in 2099 Alpha showed yet another superhero Civil War that provoked Doom to wipe them all out, not just physically, but also from human history and memory, and in light of the recurrent and violent schisms amongst the Marvel superheroes and the growing power, wealth, and reach of corrupt corporations like Roxxon . . . it does seem we're getting closer to the fall of the heroes that presages the future of 2099.

[Zelena]

The last issue or so of Immortal Hulk would say otherwise. I mean, Bruce Banner even laid it out himself that human lust for wealth and power above all else is what's going to doom human society, and while civilizations like Krakoa and Wakanda are far closer to solving the ills resulting from that than any other on Earth, the alienation they've suffered over the years from the rest of the world means that they'll very likely just leave the rest of humanity to drown in the mess and filth of its own corruption when crunch time comes. Dario Agger, the Minotaur CEO of Roxxon who sold out Earth to Malekith and his forces during the War of the Realms, pointed out that nobody "important" really gave a damn about Roxxon's evil and corruption even after that act of treason and the corporation thus continued to turn a profit. When you have that going on and so many within human society willing to acquiesce to it, how exactly are you supposed to look at such a world and think that's something worth preserving or defending?

So what, the 'non-humans' are saints, better people? I'm tired of this rhetoric. I can accept that the 'humans' have plenty of flaws, I can say it. I just don't see how the others are better people. They are selfish, short-sighted, driven by their passion like we are, they have been raised in a 'human' society, have their values, the mutants are not ants thinking about their community first (otherwise it would be boring to read…).