Having Kids: Easiest Way to Retire Heroes W/O Ticking Off Fans?

[SecretWarrior]

Or does this age characters too much?

[Adekis]

I think it ages the characters too much, but then, I just straight up don't like when heroes retire. I prefer them to start doing something else like Hal Jordan, or to die on the job like Ted Kord or Barry Allen.

I don't much like Jon and Damian, for example, and giving their Dads too much baggage, and tangentially, making it more likely that Kal or Bruce will retire, are both reasons why.

And that's just for the Big Names. Give someone like Roy Harper a kid, and it ages them up less, but it still ages them up a little bit, that's for sure. Do it with enough characters, or with enough other aging factors like art or certain kinds of writing, and you suddenly realize you think of Dick Grayson as thirty and Bruce Wayne as nearly fifty, and then you've got a problem again. Or at least you do if you think that the main heroes shouldn't retire. Which I kind of do.

I disagree with the notion that adult heroes would or should retire upon having kids. I mean, some of them might. I could maybe see Wally doing it and passing the torch to a grown up Bart or something. But that's only because Flash was, at least for a good while, about that legacy. Superman and Batman, I don't see either of them ever retiring while they are still remotely capable of doing the job. Going on reserve, becoming less active as they age? Maybe. But not retiring.

[Blue22]

I like the ideas of heroes being able to get a little older, have families, make way for the next generation, etc....to an extent. The way DC did it with Dick and Tim's generations were very rewarding and damn near flawless.

I don't think characters like Jon and the Robins (not just Damian. Bruce has pretty much raised three boys to adulthood already) age their parents so badly that seeing them still work as heroes is implausible. I think once Those characters become adults, themselves, then things get a little tricky. But hey, that's why time moves by so slowly in comics. So we don't really have to deal with that....until now.

While I've always liked the idea of seeing these heroes become parents (I was actually pretty bummed when Dick's last girlfriend's pregnancy was a false alarm) I'm not a fan of those kids feeling like they're meant to grow up and take their parents' title. That's why I'm still opposed to Damian becoming Batman and it's why I'm VERY opposed to 5G Superman. Even if it's something they want, it still hasn't ever sat right with me.

That's why I loved that all of the Robins went on to have their own identities, and that Dick only took up the mantle of Batman because he had to. Not because he wanted to or because he thought it was something he was destined to do. They needed a Batman, at the time, and he was the only one who could temporarily step up to the plate. That's understandable and it gave us a really good Batman and Robin run. But it's an exception for me.

I don't like the idea of characters having kids with the whole purpose of them growing up into their replacements. Let them grow into their own people with their own titles. I mean...look what's happening to Jon now because they're so desperate for him to hurry up and replace Clark. He had a good thing going on and, in two or three short years, was already on track to being one of the most well developed child characters I'd seen in comics in a long time. But then they had to go and rush the rest of that growth.

[DrNewGod]

It makes for fun in-the-future stories, but I'm not a fan in-continuity. There was a time I loved progression in comics, back when it was something new, and experimental in The X-Men, The Legion of Superheroes, and The New Teen Titans. Over time, however, I realized that the big brands became so for a reason, and progressing the characters in time and circumstance is robbing the next gen of their opportunity to experience and enjoy the greats for themselves. Sure, it's nice to have my heroes travel along with me through time, but they aren't just mine.

There are exceptions, of course, like Busiek's Astro City. But that title was designed, from its inception to be more about story than individual character brands, and having times and heroes change was part of its core DNA. What's more, I don't mind the occasional hero that's taken off the board by retirement or death, but IMO, it's unreasonable to expect a publisher to bench a strong brand.

So on the whole, no.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Replacing characters will always piss off someone so its a matter of picking your poison.

[The Darknight Detective]

Replacing characters will always piss off someone so its a matter of picking your poison.

Yep, The number of fans who are okay with superheroes they love to read retiring has to be very tiny.

[titanfan]

I don't see most superheroes having kids *until* they retire, especially with a public secret identity.

I think having heroes just retiring to retire is (and should be) perfectly normal. For those with non-Superman level powers, it makes total sense that they wouldn't be able to "go" after awhile.

Giving them kids and then shunting them off to retirement, also gives the character baggage in case another writer wants to bring them out of retirement in the future. (Coming out of retirement also a normal/believable plot point)

[shadow6743]

I wouldn't mind seeing super heroes having families. Some of these characters are over 80 years old. Also marriage, family and children are just natural progression for some of these characters like Superman. However, I know some fans while they may like Jon Kent and Damian Wayne don't want their fathers to retire. So, I think the future of the DC Universe should be shown with elseworld or alternate future stories. Keeping characters the same is tricky either they risk become stale and boring. Somewhere down the road seeing these heroes advance maybe the only thing that keeps their books on the shelves.

[DrNewGod]

I wouldn't mind seeing super heroes having families. Some of these characters are over 80 years old. Also marriage, family and children are just natural progression for some of these characters like Superman. However, I know some fans while they may like Jon Kent and Damian Wayne don't want their fathers to retire. So, I think the future of the DC Universe should be shown with elseworld or alternate future stories. Keeping characters the same is tricky either they risk become stale and boring. Somewhere down the road seeing these heroes advance maybe the only thing that keeps their books on the shelves.

I don't mind heroes having families. Aquaman, Elongated Man, and Wally-Flash are all great examples. Hell, that's been going on since Rice Burroughs' third Tarzan novel.

I'm just not a fan of using them to take a major character off the board.

[Digifiend]

I think it ages the characters too much, but then, I just straight up don't like when heroes retire. I prefer them to start doing something else like Hal Jordan, or to die on the job like Ted Kord or Barry Allen.

I don't much like Jon and Damian, for example, and giving their Dads too much baggage, and tangentially, making it more likely that Kal or Bruce will retire, are both reasons why.

And that's just for the Big Names. Give someone like Roy Harper a kid, and it ages them up less, but it still ages them up a little bit, that's for sure. Do it with enough characters, or with enough other aging factors like art or certain kinds of writing, and you suddenly realize you think of Dick Grayson as thirty and Bruce Wayne as nearly fifty, and then you've got a problem again. Or at least you do if you think that the main heroes shouldn't retire. Which I kind of do.

Bruce doesn't need to actually be old enough to be Dick's father. If you assume he was in his 20s when he adopted Dick, it works out fine. He could only be in his early 40s now. Not 50.

Grayson IS about 30 now, by the way. One of the Ric Nightwing issues said he lost almost two decades of memories, and the last thing he remembers is his parents dying, when he was 13.

[phantom1592]

Bruce doesn't need to actually be old enough to be Dick's father. If you assume he was in his 20s when he adopted Dick, it works out fine. He could only be in his early 40s now. Not 50.

Grayson IS about 30 now, by the way. One of the Ric Nightwing issues said he lost almost two decades of memories, and the last thing he remembers is his parents dying, when he was 13.

That's one of the bonuses to adoption. The 'aquire a teen sidekick' is a lot easier than aging up natural kids. LOTS of hoops to jump through since Dick was in college when Ra's and Talia were first introduced... Now we had a Superman flashbacks showing that he was married and the kid was here before he fought Doomsday... and there's just too much to cram in and keep continuity intact. Everything reads different then and frankly not much is for the better.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, they screwed up in Teen Titans Rebirth. If Damian is 13 years old and Dick is 30, Dick was 17 when he was born. But Damian suddenly had a three year age up when Rebirth hit. If he was 10 now, then Dick would be 20 when he was born, which would match him being in college when Bruce and Talia first met.

[Jekyll]

Or does this age characters too much?

This is one of the more insane theories and I hate that this mentality even exists. If a creator thinks that having a family "ages" or "hampers" a character and the stories that can be told, then that creator does not have much creativity in the first place.

[The Darknight Detective]

This is one of the more insane theories and I hate that this mentality even exists. If a creator thinks that having a family "ages" or "hampers" a character and the stories that can be told, then that creator does not have much creativity in the first place.

The thing about adding kids is that it changes the mood of the stories. Not everybody can roll with it, so that's something beyond even a creator's skill.

[king81992]

Based on the reaction Wally's kids got(and still get) from some fans, having kids as a way to retire heroes is not very popular. The only superhero kid who was 100% beloved by fans was Jon, Damian is polarizing at best. It also helped that neither Superman or Batman retired. Wally didn't retire either, but fans(at the time) felt he got shafted because of the kids.

Also the theory that certain writers/creators peddle that having sidekicks and kids 'ages a character' is pure nonsense. Even if it did, there are plenty of viable stories that could be told with an 'aged' hero and their sidekicks or children.