Having Kids: Easiest Way to Retire Heroes W/O Ticking Off Fans?

[AdamFTF]

Yeah. That's my point.

This system with circulating writers that write the characters over eternity is not necessarily better. You get more volume, but most of the stories are pretty crap and aren't notable. And these days, the stories often disregard and contradict each other. The woman who worked on Sailor Moon also created Sailor Moon, so she undoubtedly knows that character's voice and world, and what Sailor Moon would and would not do in just about any situation. With Wonder Woman, the creators can't agree on this, and because of that, she's going around in circles. Plus, the creator is usually going to care more about their character and story than some random hack who can't be bothered to read and research much of the stuff that came before them.

There are good points and bad points. For example, Frontier is right when it comes to certain characters. For example, if only Lee and Kirby ever wrote X-Men, it wouldn't have amounted to much of anything. Also, lets remember that American comics were given very little respect early on. They were simple work-for-hire for artists. So, they weren't thinking much about stuff like world-building and deepening the canon. While manga's been a pretty big deal art form for a long while. At least since the days of Osamu Tezuka.

I just get tired of the constant "treadmill" of American comics. The constant running to keep up with it. The idea that you're not a real fan of something if you don't constantly read it. The idea that American comics characters aren't worthwhile if they're only published for a small period of time (take Marvel's Sentry for example, which people loved as a miniseries but hated as anything else.

[Dr. Ellingham]

I just get tired of the constant "treadmill" of American comics. The constant running to keep up with it.

I think that's the core of this discussion - needing the characters to evolve with us. Except...they don't have to.

Superhero fantasies were designed to appeal to a perennial 5-15 year old kid, and should. That's how Superman, Batman et al have lasted - appealing to the young, and the young at heart. I think as we get older, we expect more from our entertainment. But expecting a fantasy embodiment character designed for a kid to become a fantasy embodiment for a 30-year-old, or a 50-year-old, is unrealistic and wrong-headed.

Superheroes should always appeal to kids. Some of them will reflect family, and have families - because that's core to the concept.

Also, they get rethought and revised, updated. So the idea that ongoing continuity should drive creative decisions is backwards. The question is first and foremost - what serves Superman creatively to enable new generations of fans to get on board?

[The Darknight Detective]

I think that's the core of this discussion - needing the characters to evolve with us. Except...they don't have to.

Superhero fantasies were designed to appeal to a perennial 5-15 year old kid, and should. That's how Superman, Batman et al have lasted - appealing to the young, and the young at heart. I think as we get older, we expect more from our entertainment. But expecting a fantasy embodiment character designed for a kid to become a fantasy embodiment for a 30-year-old, or a 50-year-old, is unrealistic and wrong-headed.

Superheroes should always appeal to kids. Some of them will reflect family, and have families - because that's core to the concept.

Also, they get rethought and revised, updated. So the idea that ongoing continuity should drive creative decisions is backwards. The question is first and foremost - what serves Superman creatively to enable new generations of fans to get on board?

While I agree with you superheroes should appeal to kids, if that's all they appeal to, then there would be no point for me to care about them anymore. Therefore, a fine line needs to be drawn between both children and adults, IMO.

[Digifiend]

And honestly, that's the way to do it best. Start a new imprint where you have a clean slate and can write whatever you want. Batman can be 50 and his grandson can be Batman now... because we still have the 'normal' world we can keep reading the originals. I enjoyed a lot of the Ultimate, 2099 and MC2, because they didn't succeed at the expense of the original characers I loved.

Yeah. I hope this 5G thing turns out NOT to be a linewide timeskip, but is instead a new imprint like MC2.

[Vampire Savior]

Answering the question, I don't think most fans will appreciate their favorite characters being sidelined and replaced, no matter the reason. For example, I liked Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, but when Jason, Trini, and Zack went off to a "peace conference" to be replaced by characters I didn't know or care about, I stopped liking the show. A peace conference is noble and all that, but I didn't want the characters I liked to be ambassadors or whatever. I wanted to see them as Power Rangers and I didn't want to see the people who replaced them at all (though Adam did grow on me eventually...over years' time).

[Digifiend]

The comics (which count the show as in continuity, despite the fact they're set in 2019 and not 1994) have remedied that unrealistic exit excuse. Turns out the Peace Conference was just a cover they put on the local news to explain their absence, and in truth, they remained as Power Rangers becoming 3/4 of the new Omega Rangers team.

[Vampire Savior]

The comics (which count the show as in continuity, despite the fact they're set in 2019 and not 1994) have remedied that unrealistic exit excuse. Turns out the Peace Conference was just a cover they put on the local news to explain their absence, and in truth, they remained as Power Rangers becoming 3/4 of the new Omega Rangers team.

Well...that's good to know...I guess.

[Flash Gordon]

Batman and Robin will never die!

Or retire, for that matter.

[BohemiaDrinker]

While I agree with you superheroes should appeal to kids, if that's all they appeal to, then there would be no point for me to care about them anymore. Therefore, a fine line needs to be drawn between both children and adults, IMO.

They can always appeal to your inner kid.

I personally love comics that are aimed at younger readers, and yet don't offend their intelligence. Stuff like Young Justice can honestly make me channel my eight year old self and just enjoy.

(I don't think it should be all they are either and agree with you, but, at the end of the day, I think kids are more important than us).

[The Darknight Detective]

They can always appeal to your inner kid.

I personally love comics that are aimed at younger readers, and yet don't offend their intelligence. Stuff like Young Justice can honestly make me channel my eight year old self and just enjoy.

(I don't think it should be all they are either and agree with you, but, at the end of the day, I think kids are more important than us).

I do have a problem with most superhero comics not really being appropriate for kids, FWIW.

[Dr. Ellingham]

While I agree with you superheroes should appeal to kids, if that's all they appeal to, then there would be no point for me to care about them anymore. Therefore, a fine line needs to be drawn between both children and adults, IMO.

Agreed. They can tell adult stories too. I mean, they did that in the 1950s simultaneously - Superman had an adult life in Superman and Action, Superboy had a teenage life in Superboy.

My point was more that Superman should primarily be presented as an aspirational character to young people. Not to the older people who are already paying attention. Same for Batman, WW, etc.

[Vampire Savior]

Unless you're making something for very little kids--like Nick Jr. level--I don't think it's too tough to make stuff that both kids and adults can enjoy. Like the original Ghostbusters movie and the Real Ghostbusters cartoon show, for example. Or Batman: The Animated Series and the Justice League cartoon.

[skyvolt2000]

Unless you're making something for very little kids--like Nick Jr. level--I don't think it's too tough to make stuff that both kids and adults can enjoy. Like the original Ghostbusters movie and the Real Ghostbusters cartoon show, for example. Or Batman: The Animated Series and the Justice League cartoon.

Well the issue when it comes to kids is this-

Who the kids tend to like are the guys-management, entitlement fans, comicsgate, trolls, creative teams & comic book stores don't care for.

Look at the hate for Ms Marvel, Squirrel Girl & Moon Girl. Yet at various times these ladies BEAT Batman and other top sellers in other media like trades.
A kid that likes Vixen, Bumblebee or Black Lightning's daughters from tv shows. Has ZERO to read about them in comics. Dc has ZERO interest in doing anything with them.

Because those above gatekeepers EXPECT anyone who wants to read comics is because of Batman and his entitlement friends. All the talent has to go to them and everyone else gets scraps. Then you WONDER why Saga, Manga and other companies are beating DC (& Marvel).

The question is first and foremost - what serves Superman creatively to enable new generations of fans to get on board?

The folks who WANT to read about Superman are already there. You want NEW fans-you stop worrying about Superman. You look at his supporting cast.

Look at Spider-Man.
We have a kid's show in 2021 starring him, Gwen & Miles for LITTLE KIDS.
There is a kid's book starring them too out now.
There is no Green Lantern/Flash war going on.
How many of Peter's kinfolks have had books? How many events have they ALL been in? You keep showcasing and eventually curiosity gets everyone's book a shot.
That is what Superman needs to do. Build up Naomi, Steel, Conner, John Boy and the rest. Not trash them once certain writers leave.

For example, I liked Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, but when Jason, Trini, and Zack went off to a "peace conference" to be replaced by characters I didn't know or care about, I stopped liking the show. A peace conference is noble and all that, but I didn't want the characters I liked to be ambassadors or whatever. I wanted to see them as Power Rangers and I didn't want to see the people who replaced them at all (though Adam did grow on me eventually...over years' time).

In real life those guys got fired. So do you ax the show because of them or move on?
Seeing that in the source material EVERYONE got replaced it was going to happen sooner or later.

The comic book finally explained what they did after they left.

[Vampire Savior]

Well the issue when it comes to kids is this-

Who the kids tend to like are the guys-management, entitlement fans, comicsgate, trolls, creative teams & comic book stores don't care for.

Look at the hate for Ms Marvel, Squirrel Girl & Moon Girl. Yet at various times these ladies BEAT Batman and other top sellers in other media like trades.

Man, this again?
Those are interesting points, maybe, but I'm sure we don't need to hear them in every single conversation...

Also, if comicsgate or whoever bothers you, I've found that if you're not actively looking for them, they're pretty easy to ignore/not even see.

[Raijin]

Fans are gonna be ticked no matter what is done. It’s just how they operate.