Having Kids: Easiest Way to Retire Heroes W/O Ticking Off Fans?

[CPSparkles]

It's all about how time flows. You can have a baby floating around without too much disruptions. A year maybe two passes and the rest of the world flexes a little to allow it. But once you need that kid to be a teenager?? Well, now EVERYONE has to have aged over a decade and it breaks down. Maybe Damien didn't derail Batman... I would argue that, but whatever... But it sure as heck derailed Tim Drake. He's been an absolute disaster since Damian showed up. Also, you go from one main character... to a team book. May be good, may be bad... but Flash's book spiraled hard when the kids showed up. No more classic Speedster stories... just sharing the spotlight with the kids and teaching them and he was really pushed right out. People say jon was well received... but I remember a LOT of complaining about 'Super-dad'.

It's really the same problem people have with replacements and minorities and new characters... it's all about the companies not printing enough books for every new character, and nobody wants their favorite character pushed to the background. If I want to read about Superman.... I don't want to be reading 3 issues about his kid starting school. I want Superman. But yeah, the only thing that makes the kids worse is that when they show up... they don't just break the current book/character... they throw a wrench in the whole shared world.





And honestly, that's the way to do it best. Start a new imprint where you have a clean slate and can write whatever you want. Batman can be 50 and his grandson can be Batman now... because we still have the 'normal' world we can keep reading the originals. I enjoyed a lot of the Ultimate, 2099 and MC2, because they didn't succeed at the expense of the original characers I loved.

Damian derailing Tim has more to do with Tim, his fans and DC than Damian.

Dick moved on, Jason moved but due to whatever reason Tim couldn't let go of Robin. Heck his fans are still calling for Damian's head so Tim can go back to Robin even today.

Even after a successful solo as Red Robin. Tim was derailed by nostalgia and his fans.

I agree with @Blue22 Damian didn't derail Batman He carried on as always even taking on new sidekicks and the story moved forward.

Jon has moved on so he didn't derail that hero

Flash, Ollie non of them have to be negatively impacted it just depends on the execution. They find their own paths.

Progression is go but I don't want nor do I think it's wise to replace Iconic characters like Clark or Bruce.

Fans will always have something to complain about. Superdad got complaints mostly because he replaced Nupperman and the Superwonder ship sunk.

[Rise]

While Damian didn't derail Batman, he did put him in awakward position. How many people complained about him being a terrible father because he doesn't spend much time with Damian? It's also affected his relationship with the other Robins who were put in awakward position too because the writers don't know how to define their relationship with Batman anymore.

Damian as concept isn't bad at all, but I do think he would work better in AU than in the main continuity. I also wouldn't mind if they retired Jason (who is a favourite charater of mine), give him a proper closure and make one shot AU stories with him instead.

I think that's the core of this discussion - needing the characters to evolve with us. Except...they don't have to.

Superhero fantasies were designed to appeal to a perennial 5-15 year old kid, and should. That's how Superman, Batman et al have lasted - appealing to the young, and the young at heart. I think as we get older, we expect more from our entertainment. But expecting a fantasy embodiment character designed for a kid to become a fantasy embodiment for a 30-year-old, or a 50-year-old, is unrealistic and wrong-headed.

Superheroes should always appeal to kids. Some of them will reflect family, and have families - because that's core to the concept.

Also, they get rethought and revised, updated. So the idea that ongoing continuity should drive creative decisions is backwards. The question is first and foremost - what serves Superman creatively to enable new generations of fans to get on board?

This reminded me of a popular gaming franchise that's over 30 years old which become stale because it failed to bring a new audience in the last decade. They spoke about it in an interview where they talked about how the enthusiastic fans (aka older fans) more or less are causing more harm than good because of "not muh" and they need to win over new fans to keep the franchise alive. They decided to make a new game with new ideas which pissed off some of the older fans, but succeeded in bringing new fans which legit saved the franchise and breathed a new life in it.

They didn't neglect their older fans since they are still pandering to them with nostlgia, but they didn't make keeping them around a priority or more important than winning new fans which what I think comics should do to survive.