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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I disagree with your assessment. Given epoch setting storylines such as Superior, Spiderverse, Parker Industries, exact, along with Slott's reliance on never-ending major events, it was indeed radical and experimental.
    All ideas and stuff refashioned from before with Superior Spider-Man being a padded up KLH, spider-verse based on the fox cartoon and also bendis’ Spider-Verse event, while Parker industries riffs off any businessman Peter stories done in AU before.

    Most importantly all these events center on and reinforce a fundamentally conservative idea of Peter as a manchild who cannot grow up.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    All ideas and stuff refashioned from before with Superior Spider-Man being a padded up KLH, spider-verse based on the fox cartoon and also bendis’ Spider-Verse event, while Parker industries riffs off any businessman Peter stories done in AU before.

    Most importantly all these events center on and reinforce a fundamentally conservative idea of Peter as a manchild who cannot grow up.
    KLH is nothing like Superior. Kraven cosplays as Spidey for a hot minute whereas Otto takes over Peter's entire existence for a year and it changes his outlook on life.

    What about Spider-Gwen and Miles coming to 616? Those are pretty darn bold moves.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    KLH is nothing like Superior. Kraven cosplays as Spidey for a hot minute...
    I said Superior was padded.

    What about Spider-Gwen and Miles coming to 616? Those are pretty darn bold moves.
    Neither move was made by Slott.

    Miles Morales aka biggest Spider-Man character since Venom was created by Bendis and he crossed over with 616 in Spider-Men written for the 50th anniversary. Miles crossed into 616 in Hickman’s Secret Wars’2015 event.

    Spider-Gwen was created by Jason Latour a a ne Robbi Rodriquez and was the underheralded character who stole the show over Silk and both creators went rogue on Slott’s concept which Slott believed wouldn’t work at the start.

    Neither move is experimental either.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    ...Neither move is experimental either.
    You are wrong both moves, along with Parker Industries and Horizon Labs as bases for Peter & his cast, were experimental by their very definition. If you can't see that so be it.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    You are wrong both moves, along with Parker Industries and Horizon Labs as bases for Peter & his cast, were experimental by their very definition.
    Horizon Labs i.e. science think tank Peter works for had been done before with Garid as well as Tricorp in the 90s.

    Much of what Slott did was revisiting stuff that had been done before. That’s not by any means experimental.

    Experimental is stuff like Fraction’s Hawkeye, or Tom King’s Vision, Hickman’s run on Avengers, or going further back stuff like Miller’s Daredevil or Moore’s Swamp Thing. As far as experimental in the context of superhero stories go. Taking an approach that brings new elements or new takes on characters, narrative form, innovative art.

    In ASM history only few qualify, such as David Michelinie and Todd McFarlane’s run on ASM with it’s new art style and new kind of villain in Venom. Then you have the 90s clone saga with its out there science fiction premise and concept(which proves experimental isn’t good by default) as well as JMS’ Spider-Totem concept.

    Nothing Slott did is on that level. As far as storytelling and characterization goes, Slott is fairly conventional and melodramatic.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Horizon Labs i.e. science think tank Peter works for had been done before with Garid as well as Tricorp in the 90s.

    Much of what Slott did was revisiting stuff that had been done before. That’s not by any means experimental.

    Experimental is stuff like Fraction’s Hawkeye, or Tom King’s Vision, Hickman’s run on Avengers, or going further back stuff like Miller’s Daredevil or Moore’s Swamp Thing. As far as experimental in the context of superhero stories go. Taking an approach that brings new elements or new takes on characters, narrative form, innovative art.

    In ASM history only few qualify, such as David Michelinie and Todd McFarlane’s run on ASM with it’s new art style and new kind of villain in Venom. Then you have the 90s clone saga with its out there science fiction premise and concept(which proves experimental isn’t good by default) as well as JMS’ Spider-Totem concept.

    Nothing Slott did is on that level. As far as storytelling and characterization goes, Slott is fairly conventional and melodramatic.
    Thanks, you made me realize why I left this fandom in the first place. The Eras you listed are no more experimental than Slott with storylines such as Superior and Spider-Island and Spiderverse.
    Last edited by Celgress; 11-21-2019 at 10:46 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    ...
    You were the one denigrating Spencer for not being as ‘experimental’ as Slott. I merely point out that much of what seemed experimental in Slott was repackaging and redoing what had been done before.

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    You were the one denigrating Spencer for not being as ‘experimental’ as Slott. I merely point out that much of what seemed experimental in Slott was repackaging and redoing what had been done before.
    Yeah, whatever, I knew poking my head back in here was a mistake. And say whatever you want but making Peter into Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark lite was experimental and so were the other storylines in comic book terms no matter what inspired them.
    Last edited by Celgress; 11-21-2019 at 11:06 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Yeah, whatever, I knew poking my head back in her was a mistake. And say whatever you want but making Peter into Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark lite was experimental and so were the other storylines in comic book terms no matter what inspired them.
    About the only original story in Slott’s run was Spider-Island where everyone in New York got spider powers. Nothing like that had been done before on that scale.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    SlottÂ’s era wasnÂ’t radical nor was it experimental. It was largely conservative.
    I believe Spencer's run will be considered good ( not Ditko level), but 1000 times better then Slott's. That entire run It was Conservative ( in a bad way). Why? It was pre-Stern "Weak Parker" on steroids.The "Charlie Brown" comparison was something I really despised. Throw in his treatment of MJ and Felicia ( especially when compared to his love of Doc Ock). He got me to the point where I hated the comic and finally dropped it ( after Silk). Spencer is cleaning up the mess that was Slott's run and is restoring ASM to the great comic it used to. That will be his legacy.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 11-22-2019 at 12:05 AM.

  11. #26
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I believe Spencer's run will be considered good ( not Ditko level), but 1000 times better then Slott's. That entire run It was Conservative ( in a bad way). Why? It was pre-Stern "Weak Parker" on steroids.The "Charlie Brown" comparison was something I really despised. Throw in his treatment of MJ and Felicia ( especially when compared to his love of Doc Ock). He got me to the point where I hated the comic and finally dropped it ( after Silk). Spencer is cleaning up the mess that was Slott's run and is restoring ASM to the great comic it used to. That will be his legacy.
    So damage control, but what else besides that?
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  12. #27
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    "Michelinie's run but less boring and it has a spooky man"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    That's what I have over Beelzebub now, Honoka-chan. He thinks he's a third-year school idol. I know what I am. And in this fight-- that makes me INVINCIBLE!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    So damage control, but what else besides that?
    That remains to be seen.

  14. #29

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    Hopefully Spencer nails the landing with Kindred.

    Biggest impact Spencer's had on Spider-Man so far is fixing things: Peter and MJ back together, Black Cat is no Queenpin any more, original Kraven is back in the ground.

  15. #30
    Fantastic Member RD155's Avatar
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    Had you asked me this a few issues back I would have had a different answer. Lately though I’ve become a bit concerned with Spencer. We had the boomerang team up issues against the female sinister six.....then the absolute carnage tie ins and now this 2099 story. That’s a pretty decent stretch of mediocrity with some good moments sprinkled in. I won’t lie, I’m starting to get a bit conerned about the run. I do have faith that Spencer will get on his game but right now the title is in a bit of a slump.

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