What do you think Nick Spencer's impact will be on the brand?

[Lukmendes]

Yeah, whatever, I knew poking my head back in here was a mistake. And say whatever you want but making Peter into Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark lite was experimental and so were the other storylines in comic book terms no matter what inspired them.

I mean, to be fair, I do think that in some ways, Horizon Labs was experimental, but not PI, the way the PI stories are told are just Horizon Labs' but on higher scale at first, and then once the Zodiac is dealt with, it's much the same; Peter being a businessman doesn't matter since we never see him doing business decisions that actually affect him positively or negatively, or how being in the business world could affect him, or how his morality would get in the way (It was hinted that him prioritizing doing good would doom PI as it was making them lose money, but that never happened, so it was a red herring), and stuff like PI removing money issues and giving him shiny new armors is something Horizon Labs had done already.

So I don't see his PI being too experimental aside from Zodiac somewhat, it was still just the kind of story style Slott was telling before, so it was conservative in this sense.

Spider-Verse in the sense of "We gather a bunch of Spider-Men to save the multiverse" was done before with both the 90's cartoon and Shattered Dimensions, I even remember hearing that Slott went for Spider-Verse because of Shattered Dimensions, so it's not experimental in that sense, but it was still important to Spider-Man's brand, since this is what established for good that using Spider-Men of the multiverse for whatever is something that is officially part of Spider-Man now, so whether one likes it or not, Spider-Verse was important, even if it wasn't new.

As for Spencer's impact, so far all he's doing is damage control, which is basically what Marvel was trying to do with OMD and BND, and Spencer is being more competent at it, perhaps that can be good enough, but we'll see if it's just that, but hopefully it doesn't become forgettable.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

In general, Slott put plot over character. Spencer does things the other way around. I wouldn’t say either run was experimental.

[Huntsman Spider]

I mean, to be fair, I do think that in some ways, Horizon Labs was experimental, but not PI, the way the PI stories are told are just Horizon Labs' but on higher scale at first, and then once the Zodiac is dealt with, it's much the same; Peter being a businessman doesn't matter since we never see him doing business decisions that actually affect him positively or negatively, or how being in the business world could affect him, or how his morality would get in the way (It was hinted that him prioritizing doing good would doom PI as it was making them lose money, but that never happened, so it was a red herring), and stuff like PI removing money issues and giving him shiny new armors is something Horizon Labs had done already.

So I don't see his PI being too experimental aside from Zodiac somewhat, it was still just the kind of story style Slott was telling before, so it was conservative in this sense.

Spider-Verse in the sense of "We gather a bunch of Spider-Men to save the multiverse" was done before with both the 90's cartoon and Shattered Dimensions, I even remember hearing that Slott went for Spider-Verse because of Shattered Dimensions, so it's not experimental in that sense, but it was still important to Spider-Man's brand, since this is what established for good that using Spider-Men of the multiverse for whatever is something that is officially part of Spider-Man now, so whether one likes it or not, Spider-Verse was important, even if it wasn't new.

As for Spencer's impact, so far all he's doing is damage control, which is basically what Marvel was trying to do with OMD and BND, and Spencer is being more competent at it, perhaps that can be good enough, but we'll see if it's just that, but hopefully it doesn't become forgettable.

Didn't Dan Slott write the story for Shattered Dimensions? Probably where and how he got the idea for Spider-Verse.

[Prof. Warren]

Had you asked me this a few issues back I would have had a different answer. Lately though I’ve become a bit concerned with Spencer. We had the boomerang team up issues against the female sinister six.....then the absolute carnage tie ins and now this 2099 story. That’s a pretty decent stretch of mediocrity with some good moments sprinkled in. I won’t lie, I’m starting to get a bit conerned about the run. I do have faith that Spencer will get on his game but right now the title is in a bit of a slump.

Yeah, it's been awhile since Spencer knocked an issue out of the park, much less killing it on a full arc. I feel like he's kind of spinning wheels until he can pull the trigger on Kindred. The book hasn't become bad, in my opinion, but it's getting dangerously close to feeling mediocre.

I have confidence that Spencer can right the ship, though. The solicitations for next year look promising.

As for the impact of his run, it's waaaay too soon to say. We haven't even had the Kindred reveal yet.

[Snoop Dogg]

Politicians should swear on a giant 62-issue Spencer Cap omnibus to prove their love for God and country.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Didn't Dan Slott write the story for Shattered Dimensions? Probably where and how he got the idea for Spider-Verse.

Slott said the germ came from working on the game where he noted the alt universe Peters didn’t banter and interact much because of limitations of medium s as t the time. As it is his Spider-Verse event didn’t exactly have a ton of interesting interactions.

The concept of mashing alternative versions of heroes is as old as Flash of Two Worlds when you come down to it. i mean maybe there’s something older than that but that’s the first cross continuity crossover. The fox cartoon of course did it first. In fact the word Spider-Verse was used during the clone saga at one point (google this bit I saw it months back) to describe the multitude of clones of Peter.

Fundamentally Spider-Verse just confirmed the reality that 616 Spider-Man has been lagging behind some of his alternative versions in terms of capturing the zeitgeist. So Spider-Verse is the equivalent of an aging rocker trying to be hip by hanging out with younger groups doing better covers of his old hits.

It’s fundamentally conservative as is most of Slott and the BND and Post-OMD era in general.

[Lukmendes]

In fact the word Spider-Verse was used during the clone saga at one point (google this bit I saw it months back) to describe the multitude of clones of Peter.

Not sure if this is the only time, but I remember having a chuckle out of this a few weeks ago, though "Spider-Verse" is being used to talk about Spidey's world.

Also funny how it says "it'll rock the Spider-Verse", they had no idea...

[Snoop Dogg]

No hyphen? EPIC FAIL!

[Revolutionary_Jack]

No hyphen? EPIC FAIL!

Go back to Ditko, go back to AF#15 and you won’t find the hyphen used consistently either.

Doesn’t mean anything by itself.

[Huntsman Spider]

Slott said the germ came from working on the game where he noted the alt universe Peters didn’t banter and interact much because of limitations of medium s as t the time. As it is his Spider-Verse event didn’t exactly have a ton of interesting interactions.

The concept of mashing alternative versions of heroes is as old as Flash of Two Worlds when you come down to it. i mean maybe there’s something older than that but that’s the first cross continuity crossover. The fox cartoon of course did it first. In fact the word Spider-Verse was used during the clone saga at one point (google this bit I saw it months back) to describe the multitude of clones of Peter.

Fundamentally Spider-Verse just confirmed the reality that 616 Spider-Man has been lagging behind some of his alternative versions in terms of capturing the zeitgeist. So Spider-Verse is the equivalent of an aging rocker trying to be hip by hanging out with younger groups doing better covers of his old hits.

It’s fundamentally conservative as is most of Slott and the BND and Post-OMD era in general.

Interesting observation there, and not exactly without merit.

[Snoop Dogg]

It's funny how so much relies on Kindred just because he's the only thing that's not karaoke or cover band. When really he's the anti-Hydra Cap. The latter had a lot of time dedicated to them, but you were told who he was and how he got there immediately because Spencer wanted to make it clear from the start that those interesting things were not as interesting as the things he was actually going to do in the story. And he started that all around his 12th issue. Kindred is the opposite, where he mainly does nothing and it all entirely hinges on who he is and how he got there, and we still won't know after 44 issues and over $150. Even if it is good that no one has a solid answer. The mystery can and should be kept, but it's really not good that he's such a passive non-entity so as to not interfere with the constant barrage of loosely-connected throwback stories that must all be at least 3 issues long.

[Lukmendes]

It's funny how so much relies on Kindred just because he's the only thing that's not karaoke or cover band. When really he's the anti-Hydra Cap. The latter had a lot of time dedicated to them, but you were told who he was and how he got there immediately because Spencer wanted to make it clear from the start that those interesting things were not as interesting as the things he was actually going to do in the story. And he started that all around his 12th issue. Kindred is the opposite, where he mainly does nothing and it all entirely hinges on who he is and how he got there, and we still won't know after 44 issues and over $150. Even if it is good that no one has a solid answer. The mystery can and should be kept, but it's really not good that he's such a passive non-entity so as to not interfere with the constant barrage of loosely-connected throwback stories that must all be at least 3 issues long.

The thing that saves Kindred is that he's not the focus of most of Spencer's run, he just shows up sometimes, looks creepy then leaves, and the main plot is mostly unaffected, it's only really in ASM#26 and #31 where he affects it, both to make Peter's life easier (Telling Fisk to keep the cops away from Peter in the first one, and stopping Norman from killing Peter in the second one).

The mystery, I don't find it as obnoxious as Hobgoblin where he showed up semi consistently and it's basically "Whoever is Hobgoblin has plans", Kindred is doing that, sure, but again, he doesn't show up much so it's not as annoying, for now at least.

But yeah, you're right that him being so passive is questionable, and since ASM#25 he mentioned that he had plans for the Spider-Family, but so far, nothing, and that story may end up being a crossover, which I hope it isn't if I'm right about his identity being revealed in ASM#50, 'cause we've had Hunted, the AC tie-ins, and the 2099 stuff, it's too many events and the quality has been declining too...

So yeah, Kindred may be the big thing of Spencer's run, and I hope that unlike the other Spidey mysteries, it doesn't overstay its welcome, 'cause when that happens, even if the answer is clever, it took so long for it to be revealed that nobody cares anymore...

[Revolutionary_Jack]

WRT the kindred mystery. If we consider time For the probable reveal ie two years then it would be the same as mount of time between green goblin’s first appearance and Norman’s reveal. So the kindred mystery hasn’t worn itself out yet. It has a way to go before it goes Hobgoblin on us all.

In terms of issues though between ASM#238 and ASM#289 when the first hobgoblin mystery was resolved or put on hold until people lost interest or derailed, it was 51 issues. So Spencer is primed to do a mystery as long as hobgoblin in the timespan of the original mystery with Norman Goblin.

[Lukmendes]

WRT the kindred mystery. If we consider time For the probable reveal ie two years then it would be the same as mount of time between green goblin’s first appearance and Norman’s reveal. So the kindred mystery hasn’t worn itself out yet. It has a way to go before it goes Hobgoblin on us all.

In terms of issues though between ASM#238 and ASM#289 when the first hobgoblin mystery was resolved or put on hold until people lost interest or derailed, it was 51 issues. So Spencer is primed to do a mystery as long as hobgoblin in the timespan of the original mystery with Norman Goblin.

I mean, a big problem with the Hobgoblin mystery is how constantly he showed up and they kept this "Who the hell is he?" thing for too long, and I can only imagine how annoying that must've been as far as publication went back then too, since ASM was monthly, that made the mystery last for like, 4 years, maybe 5?

Norman being Green Goblin was a lame mystery for me too, though not for the same reasons as Hobgoblin, 'cause Norman was barely a character who you had no reason to care about until he gets an actual personality in ASM#37 and then #38, any time he shows up before this are either cameos and/or a random line (Which were very scarce to begin with), so it was too little, too late by the point it's revealed in #40, though it's possible that after this Ditko would drag it a bit longer, then reveal Norman is Green Goblin, but if that happened, then it could possibly have taken too long too, but the hypothesis doesn't matter, what we got was Norman only getting any focus 3 issues before the reveal, that was lame.

So yeah, at least for me, unlike either Goblin, Kindred's mystery has the potential to not suck, his passiveness helped with that, but it can get in the way too... But a huge problem to keep in mind is that, similar to Hobgoblin Lives, whoever it turns out to be could get in the way of new readers understanding what's going on, if it's Harry there's at least the AC tie-ins to point in his direction, but new readers won't know who he is as a character since Harry didn't show up in Spencer's ASM outside of flashbacks, if it's Gwen, so far the only focus she got was talking with Peter a few times in the AC flashbacks, though her mini could help out with that, and most of the other popular suspects aren't in ASM at all... It's a complicated situation, if Kindred is revealed to be a character who only matters to fans who know more of Spidey stuff, then sucks for new readers to understand the impact of the reveal, and it's too bad if that happens, hopefully if that ends up being the case, Kindred still remains interesting even if the reveal has no impact for new readers.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I mean, a big problem with the Hobgoblin mystery is how constantly he showed up and they kept this "Who the hell is he?" thing for too long, and I can only imagine how annoying that must've been as far as publication went back then too, since ASM was monthly, that made the mystery last for like, 4 years, maybe 5?

Norman being Green Goblin was a lame mystery for me too, though not for the same reasons as Hobgoblin, 'cause Norman was barely a character who you had no reason to care about until he gets an actual personality in ASM#37 and then #38, any time he shows up before this are either cameos and/or a random line (Which were very scarce to begin with), so it was too little, too late by the point it's revealed in #40, though it's possible that after this Ditko would drag it a bit longer, then reveal Norman is Green Goblin, but if that happened, then it could possibly have taken too long too, but the hypothesis doesn't matter, what we got was Norman only getting any focus 3 issues before the reveal, that was lame.

So yeah, at least for me, unlike either Goblin, Kindred's mystery has the potential to not suck, his passiveness helped with that, but it can get in the way too... But a huge problem to keep in mind is that, similar to Hobgoblin Lives, whoever it turns out to be could get in the way of new readers understanding what's going on, if it's Harry there's at least the AC tie-ins to point in his direction, but new readers won't know who he is as a character since Harry didn't show up in Spencer's ASM outside of flashbacks, if it's Gwen, so far the only focus she got was talking with Peter a few times in the AC flashbacks, though her mini could help out with that, and most of the other popular suspects aren't in ASM at all... It's a complicated situation, if Kindred is revealed to be a character who only matters to fans who know more of Spidey stuff, then sucks for new readers to understand the impact of the reveal, and it's too bad if that happens, hopefully if that ends up being the case, Kindred still remains interesting even if the reveal has no impact for new readers.

I don’t think the issue of the Kindred Candidates is the same because whether it’s Harry or Gwen, those are characters a good chunk of the fandom know about. Harry thanks to the Raimi movies, cartoons and so on, Gwen thanks to Emma Stone and so on.

I personally think the Green Goblin mystery worked for the most part. Ditko absolutely intended it to be Norman. So the appearances from before match up. I think the way that Lee did it was interesting, Peter befriends Harry anc finds pug he’s been a jerk because of daddy issues and then finds out his Dad is goblin. And at the end of the story he finds an amnesiac Norman a part of his supporting cast which adds a lot of tension and suspense. The Raimi movies also milked tension and suspense. You as a viewer knew who the Goblin was but it made Peter and Osborn’s interactions really tense especially the Thanksgiving scene.

The problem with the Hobgoblin mystery is that Kingsley is just not a very good character. I mean the Kingsley that Stern wrote in Spectacular and a few of his ASM appearances. It would not affect Peter’s life one whit if and when he found out Kingsley is Hobgoblin because readers had no reason to care for him.