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  1. #256
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    The antifans, of course! Crisis of Infinite Trolling!
    Heh.

    The thing is, I don't think it's always done as trolling. In NRS' case, it's basically they don't care so they'll do what they want since they don't even like the character (so I'm told by our fine friends here at CBR ), but stuff like STAS or DCEU isn't like the Superman line of comics where there might be some obligation to make the character true to fan perception. If you feel Superman is inherently interesting, maybe you don't have to to do some drastic story line like this. I dunno.

  2. #257
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    Not sure what this means but I like it.

    So how did Black Lighting know of Superman? Not sure

    Superman is a fictional character on Black Lightning's Earth. That's why he was so surprised to see two of them in the flesh.

  3. #258
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Regarding dcau, it isn't seen as petty romance at the very least. Superman could have gone totalitarian if he had lost someone precious to him, again. He takes lose very hard.As for dceu, we don't know what snyder intended.

  4. #259
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    thanks guys for the info about BL.

    Snyder intended to do Injustice/evil Superman after Lois died. He said it himself and we saw some of it in the knightmare scene. That Superman was terrifying and a killer.

  5. #260
    Amazing Member Crabble's Avatar
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    Never mind.
    Last edited by Crabble; 12-13-2019 at 06:30 PM.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potanical Pardon View Post
    I hope there's more of Ruth's Superman. He is easily the scene stealer in this whole Crisis.
    I thought him and Welling.

  7. #262
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I thought him and Welling.
    I agree- Welling was brilliant and brought the best out of Jon Cryer who I feel seems to be stuck somewhere between playing Kevin Spacey and Jesse Eisenberg's Versions of Luthor during this crossover
    Wally West deserved better than Heroes in Crisis

    Pull List:

    DC: JUSTICE LEAGUE, JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK, JUSTICE LEAGUE ODYSSEY, ACTION COMICS, LEVIATHAN, LAST KNIGHT ON EARTH

    MARVEL: AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, VENOM, WEB OF VENOM, ABSOLUTE CARNAGE, DAREDEVIL, HOUSE OF X, POWERS OF X, FANTASTIC FOUR

    BOOM STUDIOS: BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, ANGEL

  8. #263
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Can we just make the Routh Superman the official Superman now? Every incarnation going forward has to be based on him.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  9. #264
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Can we just make the Routh Superman the official Superman now? Every incarnation going forward has to be based on him.
    I'd rather not. His Superman doesn't have a Lois, Perry, or Jimmy. Routh makes sense as a template for his looks and maybe some aspects of his personality, but that's about it. Everything else associated with his version of the character is not really worth preserving.

  10. #265
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    I'm really liking Tulloch as Lois in this. Last crossover she was given few cringy lines, not really her fault. But I wasn't sold. But here I think she's the best Lois since Durance.

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    I'd rather not. His Superman doesn't have a Lois, Perry, or Jimmy. Routh makes sense as a template for his looks and maybe some aspects of his personality, but that's about it. Everything else associated with his version of the character is not really worth preserving.
    Agreed. I have a deep fondness for Routh and Iíve been upfront at times that I think heís personally extremely appealing. Heís a loving husband and father which I really love about him. And the writing and circumstances in this crossover were definitely stacked in his favor for him to appear superior. Which....is extremely frustrating.

    Itís frustrating in part because when I really rewatch his scenes....he didnít really do or have a real character arc. He was basically written as a cipher and people ate it up.

    Truly though. He recounts that he lost all of his friends and his wife but the narrative moved too quickly and wasnít interested in truly exploring what that means. We know he suffered because the story told us he did but we get no real gravitas of how. We know that his son Jason is still alive but outside of a brief mention to Lois we have no clue what his relationship is with his son.

    My instinct would be that this Superman must have stepped away for a bit because otherwise it would be pretty tacky for Clark Kent to benefit career wise from Perry White getting murdered. One can reason that this Superman had to find a way to overcome and keep it together for his sonóbecause you canít just quit and leave a kid after his mother is murderedóbut, again, there is no depth to any of that.

    Routh talked a lot about ďhopeĒ and it will was beautiful and lovely. But if I reflect on it deeper, he wasnít a real character here at all. He was a cipher. He talked about things but there was no real conflict. No real depth.

    In contrast, Hoechlinís Superman was essentially sabotaged by some truly bizarre writing and direction choices that, frankly, I think were very unfair and crappy. Not only was he put down again in the first hour so Kara could shine but he was barely even allowed to speak in the second and third hour.

    It was extremely lovely to see Superman and Lois have a connection on every universe but it was bizarre that the writers then barely even allowed Lois to speak or interact with her own husband for the rest of the crossover. Frankly, Tulloch has chemistry with both of the men but Tyler was given little to no opportunity to show it during the crossover.

    So, now, we have Routh who was given the better suit, the better lines, more focus and all the iconic musical cues and of course heís coming out on top. They literally sabotaged the other Superman actor. Thatís more than a little uncomfortable and Iím saying that as a huge fan of Brandon. The Superman he played was wonderful and familiar but also, when you get right down to it, was not a deep character based on what was actually written. And while I get (though donít agree) that people have love for Kingdom Come and want it adapted...the very idea that Elizabeth Tulloch ówho legit killed it as Lois in this crossoveróis better served being paired with Routh for a series where she ultimately is murdered (a grim and crappy fate to assign to the Donnerverse Lois btw) than a show where sheís thriving and vibrant and alive is uncomfortable at best and, well...you know what it is at worst. Donít make me say it.

    All of this was very manipulative and poorly handled and Iím frustrated.
    Last edited by Nelliebly; 12-12-2019 at 12:23 PM.

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    I'm really liking Tulloch as Lois in this. Last crossover she was given few cringy lines, not really her fault. But I wasn't sold. But here I think she's the best Lois since Durance.
    I thought she was solid last crossover but she was also 6 months pregnant and I can tell you as someone who recently had a baby that that even impacts how you walk, your voice, your confidence etc.

    This year, she seemed to have figured out Lois’s vibe in a more complete way and I was genuinely impressed. She also got room to show us the more empathic and vulnerable side of Lois this time (like in her scene with The Monitor) and I welcomed that. That felt like Lois to me.

    Also, on a purely shallow note, there were several instances where I was genuinely taken aback at how striking she is.

  13. #268
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    thanks guys for the info about BL.

    Snyder intended to do Injustice/evil Superman after Lois died. He said it himself and we saw some of it in the knightmare scene. That Superman was terrifying and a killer.
    Rumours are not facts,mate.Untill,something credible on How darkseid/superman relationships was meant to work comes. We don't know. If it's anything like the dcau storyline, then i am all for it.

  14. #269
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Can we just make the Routh Superman the official Superman now? Every incarnation going forward has to be based on him.
    As I just said in the TV/ film thread, YES PLEASE!! He is just so perfect in the role. I really like Hoechlin's Superman, don't get me wrong, but Routh is just a whole other level. He has seriously grown into the role, in every sense of the word. Having Kingdom Come Superman as the main live-action iteration of the character wouldn't be ideal but they can pretty easily just recast him as the main Superman. I don't know, just give the dude his own show or movie stat. They'd be nuts not to.
    Last edited by Ilan Preskovsky; 12-12-2019 at 09:01 PM.
    Check out my blog, Because Everyone Else Has One, for my regularly updated movie reviews.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    As I just said in the TV/ film thread, YES PLEASE!! He is just so perfect in the role. I really like Hoechlin's Superman, don't get me wrong, but Routh is just a whole other level. He has seriously grown into the role, in every sense of the word. Having Kingdom Come Superman as the main live-action iteration of the character wouldn't be ideal but they can pretty easily just recast him as the main Superman. I don't know, just give the dude his own show or movie stat. They'd be nuts not to.
    I honestly think that while they’ve done a decent job hitting the major narrative beats of COIE, it just won’t be Crisis if all the Arrowverse actors (Ollie aside) just return to the same characters they played before.

    The big hiccup at the end is a major part of what makes Crisis.

    Maybe that means Cisco and Caitlin would get abruptly recast with the old actors in new roles.

    Or at the end of the spring premiere of Flash, Iris is like, “Wait! It’s Tuesday! Taco night with Hank and Nora!” And Barry’s like, “Oh! Right!” And suddenly we’re at Taco Night and the Allens are alive and Tom Cavanaugh is playing Henry Allen.

    Or the Legends crash on Thanagar and a winged figure comes out and is like, “You should be more careful when dealing with a Hawkman.” And Leonard steps out in a bathrobe and toothbrush like he’s been around the whole time and is like, “Who ever heard of Hawkman?”

    And with Superman, I don’t get why it can’t be a third actor or Brandon with the white washed out of his hair playing a new version.

    But if there’s not a narrative jump at least on par with TV Flashpoint where Diggle and Lyla’s kid changed and Cisco’s brother is gone then I think they’ll be wasting the narrative potential of Crisis.

    Some stuff should pick back up like Ralph’s search for Sue Dearborn and IMHO it has to come alongside some abrupt track jumps. Retcons, recasting, a sense that more changed than just Black Lightning and Supergirl moving in next door.

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