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  1. #286
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    All it'd take would be a few tweaks. I really do think that if you're going to go with no trunks, the tendency to go with a red belt hurts. Yellow here breaks it up. I'd still tuck the cape into the collar though, but if you're going to do the clasps blending them like they did here really looks a lot better.


  2. #287
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    It's too muted for me color wise. And the cape clasps are ugly as hell.

    Ironically, they used the clasps on Kara's new suit and it doesn't look as bad.
    I don't know, personally I like the clasps better than the tucked in cape look like Routh's got. I mean, they are very definitely not well done clasps, but just personal preference even bad clasps is better than no clasps.

    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Along with the other comments, I look at it this way.

    Consider every live-action suit. Now think about all of the aspects of Superman's suit, and think which suits bring out those features the best.

    Tyler's suit is down their with Routh's Superman Returns outfit. Every feature of his suit, some other suit does it better. By rules of quasi-transitivity, Hoechlin's suit is poor.
    Going to be honest - outside of a better shade of blue or better shade of red, I don't really get what most of those suits do that much "better". The cape is a nice length, the S shield looks alright, the fabric or whatever looks okay for a tv budget. It's not as impressive to me as Cavill's costume, but when I compare it to Dean Cain's and both Reeve's and Reeves' it fits in fine enough. At least for me personally.

  3. #288
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    And as much as I do think they tend to go overboard with it with Kara, he nails that genuine happiness and pride when others step up and handle things. I'm not sure how to properly articulate it, but for me at least Superman doesn't want or need to be thought of as the "best" or "strongest there is." He genuinely wants others to catch up to and exceed his example. If that makes sense.
    Very well put. That's exactly him, and totally what you'd expect Superman to act like. So long as he's able to lend a helping hand himself, he doesn't care who wins in an arm wrestling contest.

    If you're at all familiar with the Kingdom Heart games, he reminds me a whole lot of its main character, Sora. Just a dude who is so genuinely happy to see his friends succeed and be happy that the universe seems to go out of its way to reward him here and there, and he's actually the least "chosen one" of all the characters in the games.

    I'd be surprised if they don't give him a new suit coming out of this. Supposedly the dead Superman was his stand in, and you can see that his suit is a slightly tweaked version, which they'd never craft a different suit just for that.
    I'd take it from what I saw. Doesn't seem to have the top heavy clasps, at least. But I could really use a better belt.
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  4. #289
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    All it'd take would be a few tweaks. I really do think that if you're going to go with no trunks, the tendency to go with a red belt hurts. Yellow here breaks it up. I'd still tuck the cape into the collar though, but if you're going to do the clasps blending them like they did here really looks a lot better.

    Works for me. Really like that shade of blue. Likely wouldn't hit that over saturation that Routh's suit has going on in TV lighting, and, yeah, yellow for the belt is always the way to go. I'd like something less clunky for the belt, but I'd take this.

    And it just came to my attention that the suit Hoelchlin's double is wearing may actually just be a specialized stunt suit that has less going on but looks enough like the normal suit that clever camera work and post make it look no different in motion. To my knowledge, they do these stunt suits a lot with super hero stuff because those suits are allowed to be dirtied or damaged and put back together, but the ones the actors wear have to look good in a head on shot.
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  5. #290
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Flash looks awful now, that red is way too bright for tv lighting, looks garish to me. I much preferred his earlier outfits. Red is one of those colors where a little goes a long way, and that shade is just too much.

    I like Hoechlin's costume, but that's probably just because I've nothing better to compare it too - it stands above all previous tv Superman costumes to me just by dent of no trunks. Kind of hard to nitpick the rest of it when I'm just glad of the one big thing I wanted.
    If You're going for "No Trunks" I think Tom Welling's Costume was the Best of All
    Last edited by Denirac; 12-13-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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  6. #291
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    Agreed. I have a deep fondness for Routh and I’ve been upfront at times that I think he’s personally extremely appealing. He’s a loving husband and father which I really love about him. And the writing and circumstances in this crossover were definitely stacked in his favor for him to appear superior. Which....is extremely frustrating.

    It’s frustrating in part because when I really rewatch his scenes....he didn’t really do or have a real character arc. He was basically written as a cipher and people ate it up.

    Truly though. He recounts that he lost all of his friends and his wife but the narrative moved too quickly and wasn’t interested in truly exploring what that means. We know he suffered because the story told us he did but we get no real gravitas of how. We know that his son Jason is still alive but outside of a brief mention to Lois we have no clue what his relationship is with his son.

    My instinct would be that this Superman must have stepped away for a bit because otherwise it would be pretty tacky for Clark Kent to benefit career wise from Perry White getting murdered. One can reason that this Superman had to find a way to overcome and keep it together for his son—because you can’t just quit and leave a kid after his mother is murdered—but, again, there is no depth to any of that.

    Routh talked a lot about “hope” and it will was beautiful and lovely. But if I reflect on it deeper, he wasn’t a real character here at all. He was a cipher. He talked about things but there was no real conflict. No real depth.

    In contrast, Hoechlin’s Superman was essentially sabotaged by some truly bizarre writing and direction choices that, frankly, I think were very unfair and crappy. Not only was he put down again in the first hour so Kara could shine but he was barely even allowed to speak in the second and third hour.

    It was extremely lovely to see Superman and Lois have a connection on every universe but it was bizarre that the writers then barely even allowed Lois to speak or interact with her own husband for the rest of the crossover. Frankly, Tulloch has chemistry with both of the men but Tyler was given little to no opportunity to show it during the crossover.

    So, now, we have Routh who was given the better suit, the better lines, more focus and all the iconic musical cues and of course he’s coming out on top. They literally sabotaged the other Superman actor. That’s more than a little uncomfortable and I’m saying that as a huge fan of Brandon. The Superman he played was wonderful and familiar but also, when you get right down to it, was not a deep character based on what was actually written. And while I get (though don’t agree) that people have love for Kingdom Come and want it adapted...the very idea that Elizabeth Tulloch —who legit killed it as Lois in this crossover—is better served being paired with Routh for a series where she ultimately is murdered (a grim and crappy fate to assign to the Donnerverse Lois btw) than a show where she’s thriving and vibrant and alive is uncomfortable at best and, well...you know what it is at worst. Don’t make me say it.

    All of this was very manipulative and poorly handled and I’m frustrated.
    I agree with just about all of this. Brandon's Superman had "moments," but didn't really *do* anything (other than fight Tyler's Superman). And some of the lines he was given felt pretty cliche'd and wooden to me. Honestly, some of the most powerful moments were when he was angry. And it pissed me off when Lex came in at the end, because I thought "finally, with few characters around now, he'll have a chance to really shine"... and then Lex comes in. And every CW instinct in my gut says he won't be back for anything meaningful.

    Tyler, for what lines he was given, at times really embodied the relaxed confidence of Superman, and pulled it off well. But, for some crazy reason, the shows just want to dump on his Superman. After the first episode, he's felt like a cross between a footstool and a punching bag, and he deserves better. I want more of what he was in the first episodes we saw him in. And I couldn't possibly agree more about him not even having much to do with his own Lois for most of this. That was just so incredibly weird and off-putting.

    What's odd is that Tyler's and Brandon's Supermen are given decidedly opposite presentations, so it's incredibly ironic that, for me, they both ended up feeling the same way (and I mean this entirely in the non-sexual definition): impotent. The most powerful moments for the Supermen were towards each other (for the most part). Welling, the technically powerless Superman, left a feeling of having the most agency.

    As for wanting Routh's Superman to be the main one.. I'm in that boat, too. But that doesn't mean a dead Lois/etc. I think it would be a great touch if, at the end of Crisis, Lois and the rest are restored via the Earths changing. I would never want an ongoing Superman series with a dead Lois (or the DP cast, either), Tulloch is too amazing for that and the character deserves better. Mostly, I just want a suit more like Brandon's and for the character to be presented as more of a naturally commanding presence like Brandon's was.

    And a spitcurl would be nice. The slickback hair is just strikes me as lazy now - probably because I know how long it takes to do it right, lol...
    Last edited by JAK; 12-13-2019 at 02:31 PM.
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  7. #292
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    All it'd take would be a few tweaks. I really do think that if you're going to go with no trunks, the tendency to go with a red belt hurts. Yellow here breaks it up. I'd still tuck the cape into the collar though, but if you're going to do the clasps blending them like they did here really looks a lot better.

    That's definitely an improvement. But those boots have got to go. And the shade of blue they have on him now isn't terrible, but it's not saturated enough. And that red is WAAY too dark on TV lighting. It looks purple. I'd almost rather a red with more orange than burgandy, at this point. Everybody defaults to more burgandy.

    And, as I said before, the spitcurl. The hair people on the show need to stop being lazy. lol
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  8. #293
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denirac View Post
    If You're going for "No Trunks" I think Tom Welling's Costume was the Best of All
    Um, but he never wore a costume though.

  9. #294
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    I never thought Superman wanted to be acknowledge as the best and more powerful in the room, but he is. That's why he is Superman.

    If he isn't the strongest in the League, then he's just a generic superhero. I can't accept that a directly derivative character like his cousin Kara has to be a better superhero than him. That's crazy and disrespectful to his legend. She wouldn't exist without him. Superheroes wouldn't be like they are without Superman.

    Yes, Superman is humble and the nicest guy who wants everybody to be happy. That's who he is. But please stop telling me that his powers don't matter.

    And I didn't dislike Tyler when he first appeared in Supergirl. But after that he's just a tool to prop up Kara at every chance. It's why I don't watch that show anymore. Tyler can be a good Superman, but he has not been given the chance. And as good as he can be, Brandon just makes a better Superman for me. He has the presence and more.
    Last edited by stargazer01; 12-13-2019 at 02:54 PM.

  10. #295
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Um, but he never wore a costume though.
    He wore a Superman Jacket... He was like Morrison Tshirt and Jeans Superman
    Wally West deserved better than Heroes in Crisis

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  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    I never thought Superman wanted to be acknowledge as the best and more powerful in the room, but he is. That's why he is Superman.

    If he isn't the strongest in the League, then he's just a generic superhero. I can't accept that a directly derivative character like his cousin Kara has to be a better superhero than him. That's crazy and disrespectful to his legend. She wouldn't exist without him. Superheroes wouldn't be like they are without Superman.

    Yes, Superman is humble and the nicest guy who wants everybody to be happy. That's who he is. But please stop telling me that his powers don't matter.

    And I didn't dislike Tyler when he first appeared in Supergirl. But after that he's just a tool to prop up Kara at every chance. It's why I don't watch that show anymore. Tyler can be a good Superman, but he has not been given the chance. And as good as he can be, Brandon just makes a better Superman for me. He has the presence and more.

    I don't really need or even want Superman to be the strongest in the League but I agree that there is suppose to be a certain amount of competency and wonder linked with this character. If he's suppose to be a glorified cheerleader then he doesn't need powers for that. But I just don't see how anyone can conclude that Siegel and Shuster wanted Superman to be used as a tool to prop up other characters. Frankly this isn't just Hoechlin's problem it's been a slow moving decay within the character for a while now, Hoechlin is basically the most blatant example of it.

    The overall saga of modern Superman has been a guy who's been given very big shoes to fill and seems to continuously prove he can't.
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  12. #297
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    The overall saga of modern Superman has been a guy who's been given very big shoes to fill and seems to continuously prove he can't.
    Yeah, it's as though once casual fans started complaining that Superman's boring because nothing challenges him, it's as though a bunch of creators all arrived at the same conclusion that the solution would be to show us how "not perfect" Superman is and all the stuff he couldn't do. It kind of makes Superman different from other heroes from the genre. We're told other heroes like Batman and Goku are appealing, backing that up with feats, whereas Superman movie and TV writers try to tell us Superman is interesting by showing us his failures.

  13. #298
    Ultimate Member juan678's Avatar
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  14. #299
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    So I saw this video on YouTube that points out how Smallville Clark may have given up his powers..



    I totally forget about Blue K in this version. If this is indeed the "how" it makes perfect sense. I understand Clark taking a break to raise a family with Lois,but I don't think he would do anything to leave his Earth completely undefended. With Blue K,if things go bad,it's just a simple matter for Clark to suit up if needed.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 12-13-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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  15. #300
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Yeah, it's as though once casual fans started complaining that Superman's boring because nothing challenges him, it's as though a bunch of creators all arrived at the same conclusion that the solution would be to show us how "not perfect" Superman is and all the stuff he couldn't do. It kind of makes Superman different from other heroes from the genre. We're told other heroes like Batman and Goku are appealing, backing that up with feats, whereas Superman movie and TV writers try to tell us Superman is interesting by showing us his failures.
    That was basically the entire core of the Post Crisis Superman, and since thatís what theyíre drawing from mostly nowadays, thatís why it keeps showing up. Itís annoying as hell because the idiots who say heís boring and perfect have never read his comics or seen him in outside media and never will. Trying to win those people over is a lost cause because theyíve already made up their minds and are never even going to check him out anyway.

    Iím just going to hope Hoechlin will get better treatment in his own show.

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