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  1. #316
    Incredible Member astro@work's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    I don't understand why they'd bring him back as Superman and then have him get vaporized by the Book of Destiny before he really gets to do anything. He fought Hoechlin's Superman, attempts some off-screen rescues, and that's it? The paragons are all a CW regulars-only party? Sorry, but that's just a flat out bait-and-switch to me. I don't care if these guys are the regular/recurring characters of the CW-verse, I don't buy all this rewriting things to make whoever has their own shows the main heroes of their DC multiverse at the expense of DC's actual heavy hitters.
    The crossover isn't over yet, and there's no way that's the last of Routh's Superman, much less the end of Iris West, Black Lightning's family and Earth, or most of the other characters for that matter. If I had to guess, I'd bet the final episode is very much like issues #11/12 of the comics. They'll wake up on a merged Earth where Earth-1, Earth-38 and Earth-(whatever Earth Black Lightning is from) are all merged together...with Routh's Superman playing the role of Earth-2 Superman who was the odd man out and had no Earth to go back to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    Last of all, if they want Hoechlin's Superman to be worth a damn, how about actually making him a paragon? He's getting his own show supposedly, why wouldn't they want to play him up now that he isn't just a Supergirl supporting character?
    I agree, they should be building Hoechlin's Superman up in anticipation of his new series, but he seems to be getting sidelined a lot in favor of Routh's version.
    I'm loving what Routh is doing, but I'd like to see Hoechlin getting a bigger part in all of this.

  2. #317
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    If people make enough noise then i think Routh superman may return. I mean, they did make felicity a regular if i am not mistaken.

  3. #318
    Fantastic Member Last Son's Avatar
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    Hoechlin and Tulloch getting their own series was probably due to the positive reception that Hoechlin had received as Superman, so I agree that enough positive word-of-mouth could lead to something that wasn't already planned. A lot are saying Routh should get a movie or limited series on HBO Max so maybe it could happen eventually.

    But as for Routh returning as Superman in the last two episodes, it seems like there's a lot of pessimism about that because he's not been spotted as Superman on set. I guess it's possible that he isn't involved in any on-location shooting for the finale and as a result, there's no way for fans to get a glimpse and take pics of him.
    Last edited by Last Son; 12-16-2019 at 01:56 PM.

  4. #319
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    I don't understand why they'd bring him back as Superman and then have him get vaporized by the Book of Destiny before he really gets to do anything. He fought Hoechlin's Superman, attempts some off-screen rescues, and that's it? The paragons are all a CW regulars-only party? Sorry, but that's just a flat out bait-and-switch to me. I don't care if these guys are the regular/recurring characters of the CW-verse, I don't buy all this rewriting things to make whoever has their own shows the main heroes of their DC multiverse at the expense of DC's actual heavy hitters.

    Last of all, if they want Hoechlin's Superman to be worth a damn, how about actually making him a paragon? He's getting his own show supposedly, why wouldn't they want to play him up now that he isn't just a Supergirl supporting character?
    With Supergirl as a Paragon it's a little redundant to have a Superman as a Paragon too. That's what I felt when Routh's Superman was designated as a Paragon. "But you already have Supergirl" With Lex you have a unique character that
    brings his own set of skills into the picture. As least they didn't make Lena Luthor a Paragon.

  5. #320
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    With Supergirl as a Paragon it's a little redundant to have a Superman as a Paragon too. That's what I felt when Routh's Superman was designated as a Paragon. "But you already have Supergirl" With Lex you have a unique character that
    brings his own set of skills into the picture. As least they didn't make Lena Luthor a Paragon.
    We are talking about pushing superman, right? What else is there in this so called crisis that can remotely seem important?if not a Paragon, make him important.Have him do something memorable other than cheerleading.Stop treating him like second fiddle. He is freaking superman. Who cares about the lex or lena. They are just villains. Them as paragons is meaningless for the character and the audience .

    Hoechlin’s superman is more like sakura from naruto than superman .Atleast, sakura got better.

  6. #321
    Fantastic Member Last Son's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    With Supergirl as a Paragon it's a little redundant to have a Superman as a Paragon too. That's what I felt when Routh's Superman was designated as a Paragon. "But you already have Supergirl" With Lex you have a unique character that
    brings his own set of skills into the picture. As least they didn't make Lena Luthor a Paragon.
    I think it's possible to make both Superman and Supergirl look good at the same time without having to downplay the other. After all, didn't Supergirl and Earth 2 Superman both play a part in defeating the Anti-Monitor in the comics arc?

  7. #322
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Up till the announcement of a recent spinoff, Superman has been just a guest star as far as the Arrowverse has been concerned. Crisis on Infinite Earths is the culmination of the Arrowverse up till now and the big send off for Stephen Amell. They are and should be prioritizing the characters who has been important in the Arrowverse up till now. Which are Oliver, Barry and Kara. Not Clark, Bruce or Diana. I get this part of cbr is glory hungry for the big blue boyscout. But try to take some context into account. Pretty sure the Batwoman episode was the one that focused on getting people exited for the Superman spin-off. Whether it succeeded in that is up to you. The rest of the crossover will probably focus on Oliver and Barry.
    Like imagine if Endgame was suddenly all about Wolverine. It would be weird and probably piss people off.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 12-16-2019 at 07:57 PM.

  8. #323
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Up till the announcement of a recent spinoff, Superman has been just a guest star as far as the Arrowverse has been concerned. Crisis on Infinite Earths is the culmination of the Arrowverse up till now and the big send off for Stephen Amell. They are and should be prioritizing the characters who has been important in the Arrowverse up till now. Which are Oliver, Barry and Kara. Not Clark, Bruce or Diana. I get this part of cbr is glory hungry for the big blue boyscout. But try to take some context into account. Pretty sure the Batwoman episode was the one that focused on getting people exited for the Superman spin-off. Whether it succeeded in that is up to you. The rest of the crossover will probably focus on Oliver and Barry.
    Like imagine if Endgame was suddenly all about Wolverine. It would be weird and probably piss people off.
    I think it was more about boosting Kate's stature and spotlighting the AU Superman then getting people pumped for the new Superman show, but that's just me.

  9. #324
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it was more about boosting Kate's stature and spotlighting the AU Superman then getting people pumped for the new Superman show, but that's just me.
    Like I said, whether it succeeded or not, is up to you. Either way, I’m pretty sure having Hoechlin world jumping and meeting predecessors is probably the biggest thing he’s gonna do as far as Crisis is concerned. Again, I’ve actually watched these shows, so I’m coming at this with a bit more context than the Superman fans here who just jumped in expecting a 5 episode Superman event. Point being, if it was that, it would just piss the other fans, who are there invested in seeing Oliver, Barry, Sara, Kate and Kara‘s big crossover, who don’t want to have it completely hijacked by Superman. Let’s take Batwoman for example, Elseworlds had an episode meant to build hype for her show too. But I’m pretty sure she did maybe half as much as E-38 Superman did in this crossover, all she did was bail the heroes out of jail, then run in and tackle Ollie and Barry while they were tripping out. Hoechlin’s Clark has gotten way more to do than that, and it’s not even done yet. I’m just saying set expectations to a reasonable level.

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Sounds like Routh has no plans to play Superman again. Oh well. At least he went out with a great last appearance and left a lot of fans wanting more.

    https://www.newsarama.com/48273-bran...te-earths.html
    There’s a lot of verbal ambiguity in there. Lots of “as though it would be the last time”.

    I’m not convinced anything about that is definitive and I think he will be back after a fashion in part 5.

    There are credible leaks that point to something of a twist when the earths merge.

    spoilers:
    What I’m hearing is that the ACTORS will remember their multiversal counterparts. And that Ray Palmer will more or less “contain” the Earth-96 Superman, which ties into Ray’s sendoff as he likely sacrifices himself to become the Earth-96 Superman in the final battle. Likewise, Wells will be an omni-Wells. No clue how THE WORLD will regard his history but what I’m hearing is he’ll have Nash, Harry, H.R., Sherloque, and real Harrison’s memories. The world will remember a unified history. The heroes will remember their counterparts’ lives hazily. Likely part of what ends Ray’s story is realizing he has a Superman trapped inside him.
    end of spoilers

  11. #326
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    When is Tyler Hoechlin Superman supposed to be Superman and not Superjobberman lol? I'm tired of this guy getting punked around all the time.

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Gerard View Post
    There’s a lot of verbal ambiguity in there. Lots of “as though it would be the last time”.

    I’m not convinced anything about that is definitive and I think he will be back after a fashion in part 5.

    There are credible leaks that point to something of a twist when the earths merge.

    spoilers:
    What I’m hearing is that the ACTORS will remember their multiversal counterparts. And that Ray Palmer will more or less “contain” the Earth-96 Superman, which ties into Ray’s sendoff as he likely sacrifices himself to become the Earth-96 Superman in the final battle. Likewise, Wells will be an omni-Wells. No clue how THE WORLD will regard his history but what I’m hearing is he’ll have Nash, Harry, H.R., Sherloque, and real Harrison’s memories. The world will remember a unified history. The heroes will remember their counterparts’ lives hazily. Likely part of what ends Ray’s story is realizing he has a Superman trapped inside him.
    end of spoilers
    Wow, that's huge if true. So *** becomes KC Superman?

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by objectivewatcher2013 View Post
    Wow, that's huge if true. So *** becomes KC Superman?
    Yeah. And my guess after thinking about it and some of the older set photos is that they find a way...

    spoilers:
    For Nora Darhk to become his Lois
    end of spoilers

    As for set photo stuff:

    They were filming COIE without any of the main Arrowverse actors at first. I think Cavanaugh and some supporting folks were around but Routh, I’m fairly sure, filmed scenes without the group.

    Earth-2 Superman’s arc had him go solo at the end.

    TV shows don’t shoot chronologically.

    spoilers:
    Remember the photos of Routh’s wife/Nora on set and how people said she could pass for Lois? I think what we’re building towards is Ray sacrifices himself to bring back Earth-96 Superman but it brings about a payoff where Nora becomes his Lois and they write Ray Palmer and Nora out by having them become the Superman and Lois of an earth and ride off into the sunset together.
    end of spoilers

    Also, maybe I’m hallucinating but I’d almost swear Routh’s emblem was designed to be swapped out so that when things change, it will change as well.

  14. #329
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    If you want to be a total conspiracy nut, here’s a hypothetical:

    spoilers:
    Luthor erases Superman entirely from the unified post-Crisis earth using the Book of Destiny. The Anti-Monitor attacks again. They need Superman. Pariah and the others retrieve the book from Luthor. They can’t bring back a lost Superman. It would drive them mad since bringing something back that was erased is hard. But the Earth-96 Superman ISN’T fully erased. Ray has traces of him. So they rewrite the Book of Destiny to make Ray into Superman. And it affects his whole life. Nora becomes Lois. Maybe you get these creative retro flashbacks like the one fake recap from Elseworlds where we see a Routh Superman replacing Ray Palmer in Arrow/Flash episodes and Tyler Hoechlin on Supergirl. They’d just have to more or less have Routh perform those scenes. Maybe some stuff showing him pal around with Mehcad Brooks’ Jimmy.

    Brandon Routh (sans white hair) and Courtney Ford star in Superman and Lois as a new post-Crisis Superman and Lois. Total fakeout. It IS goodbye to the previous version Routh played but he’ll be playing a NEW version thanks to the Book of Destiny which we’ve already seen cause one hero to become another in Elseworlds.
    end of spoilers

  15. #330
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Resurrection!!!!

    Hopefully some of you beautiful people looked at my avatar and my signature, and got what I was going for right there lol

    Anyways, so this artical is pretty nuts, huh? https://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...in-new-tv-show (also thank you to _Beautiful_Temptress for posting it)

    It's not confirmed or anything, but the idea that Lois and Clark are going to be raising their biological Jon and an adopted Jason White kind of tracks in a weird way. I think it actually makes a whole lot more sense than Damian being a regular on the show.

    First off, I'm reminded of the kind of awkwardly place line where Lois confirms that that she's closing up shop as far as buns in the ovens go. It's awkward mainly because you didn't actually need to have that talk right when we're only *just* now seeing Jon for the first time. That almost begs for the idea that they do in fact get another kid somehow.

    Then over in the episode with Routh's Superman, they kind of -- though not quite as awkwardly timed-- go out of their way to have Routh's Superman go "he reminds me of my son Jason".

    So what I'm guessing goes down is Routh's Superman either stays dead or he comes back only to die in a blaze of glory or whatever. This then leaves Jason orphaned because his mom is already dead, and I'm betting his set-dad, Richard, is likely dead too (hell, even his grandpa Parry is confirmed dead). So, Lois and Clark adopt him. Then Crisis ends and the timeline shifts around and Jon's of comparable age to Jason.

    Now I'm guessing Jason will be “Ethan", the quiet, more reserved young boy with the "inherent darkness to him". I mean, this is the kid that killed a guy to save his mom when he was like 6, and now he's lost his whole family. Jon's likely, similar to the comics, “clean cut, modest, and kind-hearted,” "Mathew". You don't need a magnifying glass to see the obvious directions here.

    - You're gonna have Clark always trying to reach out to Jason to help him like his Pa did him, and remind him that he was also adopted.

    - They literally have Routh's Superman give the "the son becomes the father" Jor-El speech to Jason as a way of signifying that he's taken Jor-El's place. This totally makes good on with Routh's Superman dying and having our kindly super couple raise his son.

    - They'll likely play it on the very edge of Jason having some resentment towards Jon, but I'm betting they'll be pretty close most of the time.

    - The Arrow Universe's lord and savior, Kara, will likely make some appearance and provide an even better point of reference for Jason since she remembered her parents and she was also adopted into a home with a sibling.

    - Jason's also likely only a little older when their both teens.

    Now with this in mind, on the comics side I kind of found myself surprised that Bendis and DC hard confirmed Jon not having a sibling. The synergy would be pretty obvious. But then it dawned on me that this is likely why Bendis was hyping up Jon and Conner meeting. According to the new timeline, the math should add up and Jon and Conner will be of comparable age (with Jon being a few years younger it seems). So over in the TV show you'll get Jon and Jason, and over in the comics you get Jon and Kon. It's just synergistic enough to with the whole two Superboys thing where one is born from Lois and Clark and the other is sort of adopted into the family, but it's different enough where they're not beholden to whatever the other is doing.
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