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  1. #466
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    I'm not trying to trash Routh, I like him a lot. I like his Superman a lot. But he's played Ray Plamer for the last 4 years as more or less a take on his Clark Kent. The distance between those two performances is not vast. His Superman acting was fine, but he didn't do anything of consequence with it beside speechify on hope. There's no battles except the stalemate with Hoechlin, he doesn't "rally the troops," etc. His CGI fight with Hoechlin was actually pretty balanced between the two. He then got turned evil by Lex, went back and forth with Hoechlin, makes a few speeches, then gets killed and replaced by Lex.
    The Supreman we saw in Crisis was a lot different from the Ray Palmer we've seen Routh play over the last few years in my opinion. Less goofy and dudley do right-ish and more like a leading man Superman who's been around the block. Even their character voices were very different, as was how how they carried themselves physically.

    I think I already pointed out how Crisis really didn't give him much to do. It's just from a performance standpoint I think Routh was able to make the most of what little he had to do and in a memorable way.

    So what else is this praise he get's for "presence" besides his look? Which if they redid Hoechlin's suit and gave him better blocking in the scenes they'd be 90% of the way there.
    I'm definitely not going to argue they could give Hoechlin a much better suit. But I definitely think there was more to Routh's performance then just looking peak Superman.
    As far as Hoechlin goes for his own show, you can already see how they are building up Superman to be the central hero of the Arrowverse now. There's a line in the latest episode of Legends of Tomorrow where once Sara and Ray get back to the Wave Rider they ask them about the crossover and specifically ask "Was Superman there? It's not a big crossover unless Superman is there." Similarly Barry's reaction to Superman's praise on the Hall of Justice is a subtle signal to his importance.
    Cisco is also wearing a Superman shirt in previews for the Post-Crisis Flash episode.

    So yeah, hopefully having his own show will get to really up Superman's standing in the Arrowverse. Again, I think it helps that he'll finally be separated from Kara.

  2. #467
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    The suit didn't make Brandon an impressive Superman, he did with his presence and acting skills. Sure, the writing did him more favors than Hoechlin so far, imo. I'd feel pretty let down if I was him honestly. A lot of fans and critics noticed too not just me or few others. I care about the character first and foremost than any actor, by the way, and I really think the CW has done big damage to my fave superhero. It really hurts.


    "From the get-go, Hoechlin's Man of Steel has had a tough time. His look and portrayal haven't been widely accepted by large portions of the fanbase, while others feel his role as a supporting character on Supergirl did him more harm than good. For many fans, Superman is meant to be an iconic hero at the front and center of the DC Universe -- not merely as a plot device to further Kara Danver's story."

    https://www.cbr.com/crisis-brandon-r...-hoechlin/amp/
    Actually I don't think the writing was even that much better for Routh than Hoechlin. He had a couple cringy lines himself, but in the end it didn't matter that much. Just more of a testament to me how he's just far better suited for the role than Hoechlin. No pun intended. The costume is markedly better but that's hardly a primary reason I think he's better. Before this, he was all but forgotten to me after the disaster of SR. I had no real desire to see him get another shot, and admittedly at first it was the look they crafted for him which caught my eye. Then I saw him and it was his performance that won me over.

    Anywho, in regards to Hoechlin obviously WB is more than pleased considering the fast track to series. From there we'll see the how the show does and if its a hit hey, so be it. But for my money he's probably the worst live action version I've ever seen.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "ďYour boos mean nothing, Iíve seen what makes you cheer!Ē

  3. #468
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Let me see if I understand the current status quo correctly: All the previous universes still exist but the residents of CW Earth don't know it and think they are the only one. Yes?
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  4. #469
    Super Member GSman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Let me see if I understand the current status quo correctly: All the previous universes still exist but the residents of CW Earth don't know it and think they are the only one. Yes?
    Basically, yeah. The Multiverse was reborn, with the same universes, but also with new ones, like Stargirl. They're apparently undetectable to Earth Prime, now.

  5. #470
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Yeah, all the main Arrowverse Earths combined into one and a new Multiverse was created but nobody on Earth Prime is aware of it or can detect it.

    Some Earth's were re-constructed (Earth-2 became the JSA's Earth instead of the previously established Earth-2), but some seem to have been pretty much restored as is (with maybe some changes judging by the last scene of Routh's Superman).

  6. #471
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    Is routh really that big wow his Superman was incredible

  7. #472
    Incredible Member Midnighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, all the main Arrowverse Earths combined into one and a new Multiverse was created but nobody on Earth Prime is aware of it or can detect it.

    Some Earth's were re-constructed (Earth-2 became the JSA's Earth instead of the previously established Earth-2), but some seem to have been pretty much restored as is (with maybe some changes judging by the last scene of Routh's Superman).
    The only Earths that were wholly remade were Earth 2 and 19 right?

    Is it possible that they were also folded into Earth-Prime and that's why they were overwritten?

  8. #473
    Super Member GSman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    The only Earths that were wholly remade were Earth 2 and 19 right?

    Is it possible that they were also folded into Earth-Prime and that's why they were overwritten?
    While possible, I don't think that's happened. From what we know Earth Prime was formed from Earth 1, 38, and BL. Because the people of those 3 worlds were present during it's creation, so the timeline accommodated their histories.

  9. #474
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    It would seem that pretty much any or all of the earth's we've seen could have survived. We already know that off camera, the Smallville Earth survived, the showrunner said so. If that one did, why not the '66 Batman verse with old Robin giving that line one last well-earned spin? Or the Keaton-verse Batman's universe? Or any others? So we have Earth Prime, a combo of Ollie's Earth, SG Earth, and BL Earth. We have an Earth 2 Stargirl JSA. We have a Titan's Earth. We have a Swamp Thing Earth and Doom Patrol Earth. And we know there are Green Lanterns who may be on Earth Prime, or may be on an Earth HBO Max. So...really, apart from ending Arrow and putting current CW stuff all on the same Earth...what did this actually do?

    Biggest thing I can think of is that it opens the others to CW crossovers in a more overt manner. Though I'm still confused as to whether Stargirl is considered CW or streaming...

  10. #475
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    The only Earths that were wholly remade were Earth 2 and 19 right?

    Is it possible that they were also folded into Earth-Prime and that's why they were overwritten?
    There are actually people who are are leftovers from the combined Earths. The alien bar that has showed up in Supergirl is now like a expat bar for people that are orphans from the old Earths.

  11. #476
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Actually I don't think the writing was even that much better for Routh than Hoechlin. He had a couple cringy lines himself, but in the end it didn't matter that much. Just more of a testament to me how he's just far better suited for the role than Hoechlin. No pun intended. The costume is markedly better but that's hardly a primary reason I think he's better. Before this, he was all but forgotten to me after the disaster of SR. I had no real desire to see him get another shot, and admittedly at first it was the look they crafted for him which caught my eye. Then I saw him and it was his performance that won me over.

    Anywho, in regards to Hoechlin obviously WB is more than pleased considering the fast track to series. From there we'll see the how the show does and if its a hit hey, so be it. But for my money he's probably the worst live action version I've ever seen.
    For me it's the worse version in every way, visually and his portrayal. I hope his show doesn't suck, but even if it's actually decent, I don't see myself ever caring about him because the CW already ruined him for me beyond repair.

    Seeing Hoechlin next to Routh and even Welling was also more evidence how much better they embody Superman than him.
    Last edited by stargazer01; 01-27-2020 at 10:02 AM.

  12. #477
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    The only Earths that were wholly remade were Earth 2 and 19 right?
    We don't know yet.

    Earth-3 is very likely different now. Instead of Jay Garrick's Earth it might be back to being the Crime Syndicate's Earth.

  13. #478
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Well, we know Titans Earth is still out there because it's still on the air.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  14. #479
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Wrong thread
    You can follow me on Twitter or Tumblr, if more of my opinions sounds like something you'd like.

  15. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Is routh really that big wow his Superman was incredible
    Big? Yes, he's a big guy. Something around 6 foot 4, and he got seriously jacked for Superman Returns. I think that's one of the problems people have with Tyler H. He's...small, compared at least to the others in the Arrowverse like Gustin, Routh, Amell, even Benoist is pretty tall for a lady. And he's not that jacked. I hope he's lifting nonstop; it might help a bit. Also, block the shots better so he looks taller. The other part people object to IMO is that he's been written as a jobber for Supergirl. Which Superman is NOT. That wasn't his fault IMO. The reason I think this is that in his first appearance on the SG show, he was...pretty good. He seemed very Superman---but at that point he hadn't been ridden down by being constantly portrayed as being much less everything than SG, which continues on. And at that point, the only tall person he stood next to was Benoist, who while tall for a woman isn't taller than him.

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