Superman in CW’s Crisis on Infinite Earths

[Vordan]

Reeve wasn’t that jacked either. I don’t see much of a problem with Hoechlin’s build. That he doesn’t immediately scream “Superman” actually works to his advantage, I can totally buy that no one gives Hoechlin’s Clark a second thought. Dude is too weak to be Superman lmao!

[DochaDocha]

Big? Yes, he's a big guy. Something around 6 foot 4, and he got seriously jacked for Superman Returns. I think that's one of the problems people have with Tyler H. He's...small, compared at least to the others in the Arrowverse like Gustin, Routh, Amell, even Benoist is pretty tall for a lady. And he's not that jacked. I hope he's lifting nonstop; it might help a bit. Also, block the shots better so he looks taller. The other part people object to IMO is that he's been written as a jobber for Supergirl. Which Superman is NOT. That wasn't his fault IMO. The reason I think this is that in his first appearance on the SG show, he was...pretty good. He seemed very Superman---but at that point he hadn't been ridden down by being constantly portrayed as being much less everything than SG, which continues on. And at that point, the only tall person he stood next to was Benoist, who while tall for a woman isn't taller than him.

Reeve wasn’t that jacked either. I don’t see much of a problem with Hoechlin’s build. That he doesn’t immediately scream “Superman” actually works to his advantage, I can totally buy that no one gives Hoechlin’s Clark a second thought. Dude is too weak to be Superman lmao!

Hah, all this made me think of the old Kevin Sorbo Hercules, and how one of the running jokes was when Hercules showed up, someone would look at him incredulously and ask, "You're Hercules?" And dude was 6'3" and probably 220 easily.

Maybe that should be the joke with Hoechlin. Everyone looks at him and is disappointed that he doesn't match their idea of what Superman should look like.

[Yoda]

Big? Yes, he's a big guy. Something around 6 foot 4, and he got seriously jacked for Superman Returns. I think that's one of the problems people have with Tyler H. He's...small, compared at least to the others in the Arrowverse like Gustin, Routh, Amell, even Benoist is pretty tall for a lady. And he's not that jacked. I hope he's lifting nonstop; it might help a bit. Also, block the shots better so he looks taller. The other part people object to IMO is that he's been written as a jobber for Supergirl. Which Superman is NOT. That wasn't his fault IMO. The reason I think this is that in his first appearance on the SG show, he was...pretty good. He seemed very Superman---but at that point he hadn't been ridden down by being constantly portrayed as being much less everything than SG, which continues on. And at that point, the only tall person he stood next to was Benoist, who while tall for a woman isn't taller than him.

Hochelin (6') is the same height as Gustin, 6 inches taller than Benoist (who is 5'8"), one inch shorter than Amell (6' 1") though they made Amell look shorter than him in the ElseWorlds, and only 2 inches shorter than Rough (6'2"). It's all blocking if he looks shorter then them.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Hochelin (6') is the same height as Gustin, 6 inches taller than Benoist (who is 5'8"), one inch shorter than Amell (6' 1") though they made Amell look shorter than him in the ElseWorlds, and only 2 inches shorter than Rough (6'2"). It's all blocking if he looks shorter then them.

to be fair, this is all pretty much exactly the same thing as the inital reaction when Gustin was starting out as the Flash. People thought the guy looked too skinny, lot of comparisons to the actor from the first show. Who also arguably had a better costume.



And I get it. It's a valid complaint. But with like Flash and Superman, I don't think it's as important for the actor to be super huge when their powers aren't from lifting weights or from Captain America steroids.
Hell Michael Keaton was 5'9 when he was Batman, and it was fine. It's really not as much of a dealbreaker, as people are trying to make it.

[Yoda]

And I get it. It's a valid complaint. But with like Flash and Superman, I don't think it's as important for the actor to be super huge when their powers aren't from lifting weights or from Captain America steroids.
Hell Michael Keaton was 5'9 when he was Batman, and it was fine. It's really not as much of a dealbreaker, as people are trying to make it.

Oh, I completely agree it's a tempest in an internet teapot. It doesn't matter to 95% of the people who actually watch CW shows. Same thing with the whole "jobber" complaint. It doesn't matter in the actual scheme of things for them.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah! I don't buy that these things don't matter. Presentation matters. Product needs to sell. Ofcourse, cw has its audiences. But superman shouldn't be confined to that. he needs to reach farther Because mediocrity isn't something the ip needs.
As for superman not needing muscle.Are you kidding me? He is the star of action comics. His design was based on gladiators and strong men. And his powers source, It has changed many times.Clark used to break his limits by effort. Physiology was one of the explanation for his powers.
People say what is'nt needed for superman. Nobody say what is necessary. Everything needs to come together for good entertainment. Action and presentation aren't trivial aspects.

[Yoda]

Yeah! I don't buy that these things don't matter. Presentation matters. Product needs to sell. Ofcourse, cw has its audiences. But superman shouldn't be confined to that. he needs to reach farther Because mediocrity isn't something the ip needs.
As for superman not needing muscle.Are you kidding me? He is the star of action comics. His design was based on gladiators and strong men. And his powers source, It has changed many times.Clark used to break his limits by effort. Physiology was one of the explanation for his powers.
People say what is'nt needed for superman. Nobody say what is necessary. Everything needs to come together for good entertainment. Action and presentation aren't trivial aspects.

It doesn't matter for the CW's audience. It matters for internet comic nerds. Which are minority of a minority of that audience. And Hoechlin basically has the Morrison/Rags Morales Superman's build.

[Frontier]

to be fair, this is all pretty much exactly the same thing as the inital reaction when Gustin was starting out as the Flash. People thought the guy looked too skinny, lot of comparisons to the actor from the first show. Who also arguably had a better costume.



And I get it. It's a valid complaint. But with like Flash and Superman, I don't think it's as important for the actor to be super huge when their powers aren't from lifting weights or from Captain America steroids.
Hell Michael Keaton was 5'9 when he was Batman, and it was fine. It's really not as much of a dealbreaker, as people are trying to make it.

Yeah, and look how far Barry's costume has come since then.

If the concept art for the new suit is accurate, Hoechlin might start looking more in-line with what people are expecting.

[achilles]

Hochelin (6') is the same height as Gustin, 6 inches taller than Benoist (who is 5'8"), one inch shorter than Amell (6' 1") though they made Amell look shorter than him in the ElseWorlds, and only 2 inches shorter than Rough (6'2"). It's all blocking if he looks shorter then them.

Fine, then fix the blocking. Problem solved. Though it wouldn't kill him to lift a few heavier weights. Yes, technically Superman doesn't have to be jacked. But the last two film Supermen were, and the comic book versions certainly are. And given that nothing else about Tyler's Superman has been all that impressive, he needs all the help he can get.

[manwhohaseverything]

It doesn't matter for the CW's audience. It matters for internet comic nerds. Which are minority of a minority of that audience. And Hoechlin basically has the Morrison/Rags Morales Superman's build.

Not really.otherwise,the suits who do big budget stuff wouldn't invest in these things. To get attention you need to be eye-catching. Morrison's jean and tshirt superman wears clothes that accentuates the body. He looks ripped, especially his bisceps and torso.

Hoechlin’s superman didn't. If people think superman without action is great. Then superman returns wouldn't have been called boring. Even though it had the great flight rescue scene.

[achilles]

Oh, I completely agree it's a tempest in an internet teapot. It doesn't matter to 95% of the people who actually watch CW shows. Same thing with the whole "jobber" complaint. It doesn't matter in the actual scheme of things for them.

That's not really the point though. It isn't any one thing; it's the accumulation of problems. The visual being only one. How the character has been written and used being of course the major problem. But...the visuals ARE part of the problem, IMO, and if the height issue can be corrected simply by better blocking...why not do it? And if the guy can get more jacked...and of course he can, why not?

Don't simply ignore one part of the problem because it's a smaller part...do it right is what I suggest to CW. Hopefully, they will. I actually like him as Superman...but I like the one that was presented in his first appearance.

[manwhohaseverything]

That's not really the point though. It isn't any one thing; it's the accumulation of problems. The visual being only one. How the character has been written and used being of course the major problem. But...the visuals ARE part of the problem, IMO, and if the height issue can be corrected simply by better blocking...why not do it? And if the guy can get more jacked...and of course he can, why not?

Don't simply ignore one part of the problem because it's a smaller part...do it right is what I suggest to CW. Hopefully, they will. I actually like him as Superman...but I like the one that was presented in his first appearance.

This is what i believe.if the behimd the scenes guys Ignore these things and say they are trivial. It would absolutely affect the show. Quality will suffer. Look at sonic, how he changed. CW guys can do it too.

[Sacred Knight]

Hoechlin's build doesn't bother me at all. Its perfectly fine. When I say he doesn't have a presence it has nothing to do with his physical build. He doesn't command scenes, he never jumps out of the screen like he's larger than life. He's just comes across as a regular guy in a suit. And to me that's the worst thing that can be said about someone trying to play Superman. Reeves and Reeve had a screen presence, so did Routh and so did Cavill in the brief times largely poor scripts let it shine. Doesn't have to do with being jacked or not. As an actor you have that quality needed for a character like Superman or you don't, and Hoechlin doesn't, imo. Now, in my opinion Cain nor Welling had this either. But for the projects they were in it didn't matter, as a far more normalized character, specifically and intentionally focused on the human Clark side, was the feature over Superman.

But I do agree my personal bar is going to be a bit of an outlier. I'm a lifelong hardcore Superman specific fan; what matters to me isn't going to matter for the target CW audience, most likely. And that is more than fine.

[manofsteel1979]

I do think his second appearance at the end of Season 2 where he lost to Kara in a fight and then the whole thing of him saying to Kara she was basically emotionally stronger than him seems to be the one-two punch that soured people on him. His first appearances at the start of Season two I remember as widely praised and people were already on board with him getting his own show.

While I think the negative reactions to the later appearance was overblown, It can't be denied that it definitely took the wind out of the proverbial sails among a lot of fans,at least judging by here.


I think Hoechlin is perfectly fine in the role. I admit after seeing Routh and Hochlin side by side and if you asked me to pick one to get his own ongoing show,I'd choose Routh,but if rumors are true then they are both getting a series and that's fine with me.

I'm going to remain optimistic. Hopefully he gets a new costume as rumored and Hochlin gets a chance to shine on his own in this new reality built after Crisis.

[Flash Gordon]

It doesn't matter for the CW's audience. It matters for internet comic nerds. Which are minority of a minority of that audience. And Hoechlin basically has the Morrison/Rags Morales Superman's build.

Not at all, that dude was really lean and ripped.