Thomas Wayne: kindly doctor or abusive billionaire?

[Jim Kelly]

I always believed that Thomas Wayne was mainly a doctor who took care of people in need. He may have come from a rich family and he might have amassed a small fortune before his death. But I assumed it was Bruce Wayne who turned those millions into billions. Thomas was too concerned with looking after people to worry about increasing his fortune. And the thing that Bruce got from his parents was their humanity, their sense of social responsibilty for the weak, the afflicted and the oppressed.

But over the years a different version of Thomas Wayne has emerged, where his profession as a doctor has been undermined by his position as a wealthy elite. That runs counter to how I always viewed the character. Yet the portrait of Wayne as a corrupt fat-cat and an abusive father has gained a lot of support from the fans and the writers.

What do others think is the best version of Thomas Wayne?

[charliehustle415]

If I'm remembering correctly in Morrison's run it was explained the Waynes had old money and this was further explored in The Return of Bruce Wayne.

I like to think he became a doctor to give back to his community because he had that option; this in turn informed Bruce to be a good person.

I also love his characterization in Batman Begins.

[David Walton]

I definitely prefer to think of Thomas Wayne as an inherently decent human being who wanted to give back to his community, and along with Martha passed those values down to his son.

I buy into the idea that Thomas had relatively normal faults, like maybe he was a bit harsh and expected a lot from Bruce. It's likely they would have butted heads if he'd been alive when Bruce hit his teen years.

[David Walton]

If I'm remembering correctly in Morrison's run it was explained the Waynes had old money and this was further explored in The Return of Bruce Wayne.

I like to think he became a doctor to give back to his community because he had that option; this in turn informed Bruce to be a good person.

I also love his characterization in Batman Begins.

I had always thought of the Wayne fortune as old money, and I seem to recall this being implied in stories during the 90s too. I have a vague recollection that Wayne Manor was involved in the Underground Railroad.

[charliehustle415]

I had always thought of the Wayne fortune as old money, and I seem to recall this being implied in stories during the 90s too. I have a vague recollection that Wayne Manor was involved in the Underground Railroad.

Yeah totally, even in Snyder's Gates of Gotham he explores the Wayne's roots in Gotham as well as its expansion.

Morrison tied the Waynes to colonial times, the indigenous tribe Miagani, and the underground railroad.

I think the film Joker depicts Thomas like that simply because of the times we live in, and Thomas Wayne from Flashpoint is like that because of what happened to his family.

[Jackalope89]

Yeah totally, even in Snyder's Gates of Gotham he explores the Wayne's roots in Gotham as well as its expansion.

Morrison tied the Waynes to colonial times, the indigenous tribe Miagani, and the underground railroad.

I think the film Joker depicts Thomas like that simply because of the times we live in, and Thomas Wayne from Flashpoint is like that because of what happened to his family.

And Thomas Wayne in the Batman comics now?

[charliehustle415]

And Thomas Wayne in the Batman comics now?

King has only been dealing with the Flashpoint version; I don't know if any other writer has been dealing with Thomas Wayne

[David Walton]

Yeah totally, even in Snyder's Gates of Gotham he explores the Wayne's roots in Gotham as well as its expansion.

Morrison tied the Waynes to colonial times, the indigenous tribe Miagani, and the underground railroad.

I want to say the underground railroad ties were mentioned a few time in the 90s. It makes sense the Waynes have an extensive history in Gotham and Wayne Manor has always seemed like an old money kind of estate.

[Tzigone]

I want to say the underground railroad ties were mentioned a few time in the 90s. It makes sense the Waynes have an extensive history in Gotham and Wayne Manor has always seemed like an old money kind of estate.

Did it seem like an "old money estate" in the 1940s or just like a 30 year-old house of a rich family? Just trying to figure what the perception of it was back then. Certainly it's been generations old for a long time now. The wiki tells me in 'Tec 205 (March 1954), Bruce is said to have bought the house as an adult. I know that it was his "ancestral home" in the early 1980s when Bruce moves back there. When is the first time we got a really good look at it? And the first outside view?

Now, I'm also thinking of a time when Jim Gordon had a screening room in his home.

[Tzigone]

I always believed that Thomas Wayne was mainly a doctor who took care of people in need. He may have come from a rich family and he might have amassed a small fortune before his death. But I assumed it was Bruce Wayne who turned those millions into billions. Thomas was too concerned with looking after people to worry about increasing his fortune. And the thing that Bruce got from his parents was their humanity, their sense of social responsibilty for the weak, the afflicted and the oppressed.

But over the years a different version of Thomas Wayne has emerged, where his profession as a doctor has been undermined by his position as a wealthy elite. That runs counter to how I always viewed the character. Yet the portrait of Wayne as a corrupt fat-cat and an abusive father has gained a lot of support from the fans and the writers.

What do others think is the best version of Thomas Wayne?

I definitely prefer the kindly doctor. I am sick to death of good characters being turned bad. Seems to especially happen to parents (Jor-El, Zor-El, Allura, Thomas Wayne, Bob/Ruby West, Sardath, and even the Ira/William West change). I didn't like it the first time, and dislike it more every time I see it. I hate the destruction of the idea that there can be just generally good people, and that they can ever have just generally good families. That personal misery is necessary for good stories/characters.

I tend to think of the Waynes as oldish money (maybe industrial revolution), but that Thomas was a doctor and not involved with the business. The businesses practices of the family historically being pretty much as innocent/corrupt as most, and mostly law-abiding. I prefer Bruce as much less rich than he's been portrayed in recent years. Rich, yes, just not that rich. He absolutely should not be build-a-moon-base rich to me (really, the price is too high for any one person, Bruce or other, though I guess it might be cheaper in DC-verse due to alien tech). I also don't like how the money has been used as a fix-it or in ways that obligate other heroes to him (even unknowingly, as in case of Jaime in 2006 Blue Beetle series). Like in the 1980s, Dayton was the 6th richest man in the world, and that was way outside Dick's familiarity-zone.

[David Walton]

As far as I know, the first less-than-favorable depiction of Thomas Wayne was Jim Starlin's "Fatal Wish" (Batman #430). Thomas, stressed out over bad investments, actually strikes Bruce when he asks him to play catch. Bruce says he wishes Thomas was dead, they reconcile a bit later, and he takes Bruce to see THE MARK OF ZORRO as an apology.

[Zorintien]

I don't like the idea of Thomas Wayne as a corrupt elite or an abusive father. It undermines Bruce's quest. The thing that makes Bruce's motivations sympathetic are that his parent's death was a senseless tragedy that could have happened to anyone instead of karmic retribution from his dad being a jerk. Their deaths being warrentless is what makes us want to see Bruce succeed in stopping it from happen to anyone else.

[John Venus]

They can always split the difference. I like Dini's take in House of Hush; Thomas Wayne was a brilliant neurosurgeon but perhaps due to his privilege fell into a life of partying and drinking with his buddy Zatara (sort of like a DCU Tony Stark or Stephen Strange). Martha was a social worker from a poor background trying to raise money for worthwhile causes and they met through their mutual friend Leslie Tompkins. Thomas fell for Martha and in the process ended up straightening himself out.

Then you had the Elliots who served as a contrast to the Waynes; they were spoiled, abusive and rotten.

Usually in Batman adaptations there is a Bruce Wayne villain and a Batman villain. In Batman Returns you had Max Shrek who was one of Bruce's rival while Penguin troubled Batman and Catwoman troubled both sides. Similarly in Batman Begins you had Rutger Hauer's character as a minor antagonist for Bruce while Batman fought Darkman/Qui-Gon Jin. In B:TAS you had Roland Dagget, Ferris Boyle, the Terrible Trio, the rich assholes who tricked Penguin and in the far flung future of Batman Beyond, Wayne Industries gets usurped by the tech start up headed by Derek Powers; all of whom interacts with Bruce Wayne and serves as a contrast to him. You get the impression that Bruce was the only semi descent rich dude in Gotham.

If adaptations or comic books want to make one of the Wayne's down right evil, it might be time to dust off Philip Wayne; Bruce's original guardian from Untold Legends. (I think Snyder used him in Year Zero but not sure to which capacity since I didn't pay attention to that.)

[Jim Kelly]

I was watching the Christmas movie from 1940, BEYOND TOMORROW, and Jean Parker's character works at the Wayne Foundation. I wonder if this is just a coincidence or if the movie influenced someone at DC.

[Restingvoice]

If adaptations or comic books want to make one of the Wayne's down right evil, it might be time to dust off Philip Wayne; Bruce's original guardian from Untold Legends. (I think Snyder used him in Year Zero but not sure to which capacity since I didn't pay attention to that.)

Philip Kane. He's dead. He used to send his lawyer to take over Wayne Manor but couldn't because it's entrusted to Alfred and he didn't budge. Then he joined the Red Hood Gang, I think to secure his position as Wayne Enterprises executive when Bruce came back but ended up being used as a decoy for the leader's body. I think it's because he refused to hand over Bruce? Don't really remember the details.