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  1. #196
    Casual Comics Reader/Fan Londo Bellian's Avatar
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    Nerfing the protagonist to give the antagonist a leg up is a generalized pop media storytelling device. Its TV Trope article references "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and that guy Worf.
    Genkai nante nai (No limits), Zettai nante nai (No absolutes)

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  2. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by Londo Bellian View Post
    Nerfing the protagonist to give the antagonist a leg up is a generalized pop media storytelling device. Its TV Trope article references "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and that guy Worf.
    Doesn't really make the threats feel genuine though; just kinda makes the protagonists look like idiots?

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Londo Bellian View Post
    Nerfing the protagonist to give the antagonist a leg up is a generalized pop media storytelling device. Its TV Trope article references "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and that guy Worf.
    Yeah, relying so much on the Worf Effect at this point is just lazy and bad writing.

  4. #199
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Doesn't really make the threats feel genuine though; just kinda makes the protagonists look like idiots?
    Yes, this happens a lot. Like when deathstroke defeat the entire JL easyly

    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    I'm honestly just wary of the idea of Krakoa still feeding on that psychic energy; based on some of the security lapses it looks like it's been really slowing some of the characters down a tad? Though, I can't say for sure if X-men #3 was just really bad writing? Another poster pointed out that Hickman doesn't tend to make use of a balanced skill set, he makes the threat seem bigger by weakening the characters to make the adversary seem bigger/more skilled?
    And how that isn't bad writing?

    you have to up your villain, not bring down your heroes.

    feeding psychic energy is very creepy. everyone is aware of this? I guess that the TPs must be
    Last edited by spirit2011; 12-07-2019 at 07:52 AM.

  5. #200
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Its a combination of the tropes The Worf Effect and Forgot About His Powers. In practice it's making it look like the X-men aren't facing dangerous threat, but are rather just really bad at all of this.

    Was the Krakoa feeding thing another data page? Because if so, uuuuuuuggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh

  6. #201
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Its a combination of the tropes The Worf Effect and Forgot About His Powers. In practice it's making it look like the X-men aren't facing dangerous threat, but are rather just really bad at all of this.

    Was the Krakoa feeding thing another data page? Because if so, uuuuuuuggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh
    Yes, it was another data page!!!

    for me data pages should be only graphs or maps. If you are going to write a essay, better put it on a comic page with characters saying it

  7. #202
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    OK, I've got two major changes to this relaunch. I'm venting a bit here, so sorry.

    1) ENOUGH WITH THE DATA PAGES! If you want to give us a map or a timeline chart, fine. Hell, One Piece does that all the time! 'This invasion is going on, here's a map of the island/castle/facility/whatever, and here's where everyone is!' But we should not be getting major plot details or foreshadowing relegated to text walls. The data pages are quickly becoming a crutch. Things like how Moira convinced Xavier and Magneto over time, and how Krakoa and other vampiric mutants are even living on the island is really important information that should be happening on-panel. These are comic books, not light novels. It is meant to be a visual medium. If you have to constantly supplement your narrative with walls and walls of text, you are failing as a comic book writer.

    2) No more villain led groups. This is a bit more complicated. I've personally had issues with the X-men for years because they turn to their villains for help on a dime, rather than asking other heroes for help. Some of that is editorial shenanigans keeping the X-men apart, but it hurts their credibility if they have to rely on people like Dark Beast, Emma Frost and the like for help with every problem. HoXPoXDoX has magnified this problem a hundredfold. This entire run is being run by, and headlined by, unrepentant villains. Its hard to take all the talk of hope, happiness and optimism seriously when the good guys are taking orders from Apocalypse, Sinister and Shaw. These characters didn't have a mea culpa moment, their goals just align with Xaviers', who brought them as a power consolidation move. We've had some characters make toothless statements about not trusting these people, but they still take orders from them and let them lead their country!

    I'll stop there, because I don't want to get into another long rant. It really keeps me from from rooting for the X-men when the villains are largely in charge. Hickman seems much more comfortable writing Emma, Magneto, Sinister and Apocalypse then he is writing any of the real heroes.

  8. #203
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    OK, I've got two major changes to this relaunch. I'm venting a bit here, so sorry.

    1) ENOUGH WITH THE DATA PAGES! If you want to give us a map or a timeline chart, fine. Hell, One Piece does that all the time! 'This invasion is going on, here's a map of the island/castle/facility/whatever, and here's where everyone is!' But we should not be getting major plot details or foreshadowing relegated to text walls. The data pages are quickly becoming a crutch. Things like how Moira convinced Xavier and Magneto over time, and how Krakoa and other vampiric mutants are even living on the island is really important information that should be happening on-panel. These are comic books, not light novels. It is meant to be a visual medium. If you have to constantly supplement your narrative with walls and walls of text, you are failing as a comic book writer.

    2) No more villain led groups. This is a bit more complicated. I've personally had issues with the X-men for years because they turn to their villains for help on a dime, rather than asking other heroes for help. Some of that is editorial shenanigans keeping the X-men apart, but it hurts their credibility if they have to rely on people like Dark Beast, Emma Frost and the like for help with every problem. HoXPoXDoX has magnified this problem a hundredfold. This entire run is being run by, and headlined by, unrepentant villains. Its hard to take all the talk of hope, happiness and optimism seriously when the good guys are taking orders from Apocalypse, Sinister and Shaw. These characters didn't have a mea culpa moment, their goals just align with Xaviers', who brought them as a power consolidation move. We've had some characters make toothless statements about not trusting these people, but they still take orders from them and let them lead their country!

    I'll stop there, because I don't want to get into another long rant. It really keeps me from from rooting for the X-men when the villains are largely in charge. Hickman seems much more comfortable writing Emma, Magneto, Sinister and Apocalypse then he is writing any of the real heroes.
    Except Emma's been a hero for more than 65% of her career...

  9. #204
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Nooooo. KEEP the data pages.

    Just make them more visual.

    Plain walls of text is not the same thing. Jazz it up. Pay the penciler the extra pages to draw something. Stop being cheap.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
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  10. #205
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Nooooo. KEEP the data pages.

    Just make them more visual.

    Plain walls of text is not the same thing. Jazz it up. Pay the penciler the extra pages to draw something. Stop being cheap.
    The data pages would be much better if they jazzed it up. But having the information come out naturally in the story would be the best thing to do.

  11. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Nooooo. KEEP the data pages.

    Just make them more visual.

    Plain walls of text is not the same thing. Jazz it up. Pay the penciler the extra pages to draw something. Stop being cheap.
    What about if there was a way to combine the data pages more overtly with the plot? A mini comic of sorts, perhaps? An anthology approach? Something that felt more meaningful and less essay-like?

  12. #207
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    How about we turn this on its head? If you like the relaunch, or even just a little part of it, is there some change or twist that would set you off or get you to drop the book? It can be super specific or limited to one book if you like.

  13. #208
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    How about we turn this on its head? If you like the relaunch, or even just a little part of it, is there some change or twist that would set you off or get you to drop the book? It can be super specific or limited to one book if you like.
    That argument is different because the things that might make the books more palatable are finite, the amount of ways they can go wrong is not. Obviously if the next major issue reveals all of the mutants are secretly eating normal human children to survive, I'd leave the books because that's stupid beyond words.

  14. #209
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    People literally complaining about free extra content.

  15. #210
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Something plausible, I mean. No need to go so far as baby eating nonsense.

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