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  1. #241
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    I think it’s fair considering a lot of the rest of “the west” is trying to emulate the USA.
    The USA is the only country of "the west" without free health care. Most european countries in general are much more left leaning and have better education systems, health care, and poverty aid.

    And, y'know, "the west" is not the world; China, India and Japan are all VERY different, both from each other and from the US.
    Last edited by LordUltimus; 01-25-2020 at 07:53 PM.

  2. #242
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    The USA is the only country of "the west" without free health care. Most european countries in general are much more left leaning and have better education systems, health care, and poverty aid.

    And, y'know, "the west" is not the world; China, India and Japan are all VERY different, both from each other and from the US.
    I've really wished we had gotten insight into how other nations view and treat mutants a long time. China and India make good examples. Modern China would potentially treat mutants in a way that makes old-school Genosha look like saints, and India could factor mutants into their caste system (that's been outlawed but is still present). Japan has a wild and weird pop culture, but is still super traditional and emphasizes not standing out, so mutant life there could be a tightrope walk.

    It really feels like the views of the US are projected onto the rest of the world. The only exceptions are when they need a clear 'bad guy' nation, like the Davos issue. Then the US is the crazy one in the room

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Canada in the Marvel universe have some kind of superhero registration act? I remember that coming up in discussions about Civil War

  3. #243
    Mysterious Telepath Spinster Sinister's Avatar
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    Six issues in, I think my least favorite aspect of the books as a whole are what I perceive to be ill-fitted artistic choices (outside of Rod Reis' few issues of New Mutants and the upcoming fill-in? castings of R.B. Silva on X-Men and Stefano Casselli on Marauders). For all his faults, this is not an area Bendis would have neglected.

    I would nominate:

    X-MEN: looking for EPIC artists that can also bring an unsettling vibe
    • Nick Dragotta
    • Pepe Larraz
    • R.B. Silva
    • ACO
    • Tradd Moore


    Marauders: seeking kinetic, sweeping art for a swashbuckling, fun adventure. Must also be very fashionable.
    • Russell Dauterman*
    • Stefano Casselli
    • Juann Cabal
    • Annie Wu
    • Kev Walker


    Fallen Angels: vying for someone who can do dark action and elegant creepiness.
    • W. Scott Forbes
    • Fiona Staples
    • Yasmine Putri
    • Mattia de Iulis
    • Alternate take: Leonardo Romero to contrast with Walker's roundabout style


    New Mutants: must have comedic talents with a penchant for over-the-topness
    • Rod Reis
    • Mike del Mundo
    • Afu Chan
    • Annie Wu
    • Ben Caldwell


    Excalibur: high-fantasy meets accessible superheroism
    • Mahmud Asrar*
    • Jorge Molina
    • Chris Bachalo
    • Jen Bartel
    • Javier Rodriguez


    * Current cover artists

  4. #244
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinster Sinister View Post
    Six issues in, I think my least favorite aspect of the books as a whole are what I perceive to be ill-fitted artistic choices (outside of Rod Reis' few issues of New Mutants and the upcoming fill-in? castings of R.B. Silva on X-Men and Stefano Casselli on Marauders). For all his faults, this is not an area Bendis would have neglected.

    I would nominate:

    X-MEN: looking for EPIC artists that can also bring an unsettling vibe
    • Nick Dragotta
    • Pepe Larraz
    • R.B. Silva
    • ACO
    • Tradd Moore


    Marauders: seeking kinetic, sweeping art for a swashbuckling, fun adventure. Must also be very fashionable.
    • Russell Dauterman*
    • Stefano Casselli
    • Juann Cabal
    • Annie Wu
    • Kev Walker


    Fallen Angels: vying for someone who can do dark action and elegant creepiness.
    • W. Scott Forbes
    • Fiona Staples
    • Yasmine Putri
    • Mattia de Iulis
    • Alternate take: Leonardo Romero to contrast with Walker's roundabout style


    New Mutants: must have comedic talents with a penchant for over-the-topness
    • Rod Reis
    • Mike del Mundo
    • Afu Chan
    • Annie Wu
    • Ben Caldwell


    Excalibur: high-fantasy meets accessible superheroism
    • Mahmud Asrar*
    • Jorge Molina
    • Chris Bachalo
    • Jen Bartel
    • Javier Rodriguez


    * Current cover artists
    I completely agree with you here. It's not that the artists are not good, but the books they are illustrating books that do not play to their strengths. The only exception is Rod Reis who is perfect for New Mutants.

  5. #245
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    X-men and Fallen Angels get the worst of the art problems. Large parts of FA look photoshopped in, complete with outlines. And X-men everyone looks like robots, and scenes often look unsettling when I don't think they are supposed too.

  6. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I relaly want to see that, because the Krakoa council is totally a human way of government. Not a democratic or representative one
    Honestly, when you have telepaths and reality warpers and the ultimate intimacy of having your entire consciousness and body recorded and reproduced by the state, is there even any room for 'democracy'? Let's not forget the Athenians kept their society running on the backs of slaves, and honestly, it's never really gotten much better than that over the years.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  7. #247
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I’m really torn. I love this Moira, and I hate this Moira. I love this Phalanx, I hate this Krakoa. I love the multifaceted aims of the teams, I hate the rosters and direction of most of them. I love that they resolved death as a tired trope for melancholy mutants, I hate it requires Sinister and the Shi’Ar.

  8. #248
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I’m really torn. I love this Moira, and I hate this Moira. I love this Phalanx, I hate this Krakoa. I love the multifaceted aims of the teams, I hate the rosters and direction of most of them. I love that they resolved death as a tired trope for melancholy mutants, I hate it requires Sinister and the Shi’Ar.
    What do you love/hate about Moira? Really, could you go into more detail on everything you said?

    I'm annoyed that they're just using resurrections to cheaply kill characters so much. Makes them all look really incompetent.

  9. #249
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Hasn't Hickman implied he has a reset button in mind for Moira?

  10. #250
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Hasn't Hickman implied he has a reset button in mind for Moira?
    I was always under the impression that that is what her 11th life is for. Its a built-in reset button for this entire run if things go south.

  11. #251
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    What do you love/hate about Moira? Really, could you go into more detail on everything you said.
    I’ll start with Moira.

    I LOVE the scale Hickman chose to come at this. Moira is a non-combatant mutant with no functional power, but ultimately destroys entire futures with a single action. The fact that he rewrote the ENTIRE history of the X-Men in light of this new revelation is awesome, literally. It shows a kind of creativity and calculus that you don’t sew in spandex books.

    I HATE that Moira, a human ally whose genetic science genius surpasses Xavier, is retconned to be another suffering mutant. I hate that the X-Men lost their biggest human ally and Marvel lost a true *female* genius. I hate that it makes Moira into a pariah and more of a monster in her direction of conceiving Proteus, Legion, etc. I hate she knows they’re going to fail and her solution is incomprehensible to me.

  12. #252
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I’ll start with Moira.

    I LOVE the scale Hickman chose to come at this. Moira is a non-combatant mutant with no functional power, but ultimately destroys entire futures with a single action. The fact that he rewrote the ENTIRE history of the X-Men in light of this new revelation is awesome, literally. It shows a kind of creativity and calculus that you don’t sew in spandex books.

    I HATE that Moira, a human ally whose genetic science genius surpasses Xavier, is retconned to be another suffering mutant. I hate that the X-Men lost their biggest human ally and Marvel lost a true *female* genius. I hate that it makes Moira into a pariah and more of a monster in her direction of conceiving Proteus, Legion, etc. I hate she knows they’re going to fail and her solution is incomprehensible to me.
    I think they need to change things so the futures aren't destroyed, just have her getting reset. Basically, those universes still exist. Because if they don't, and Moira is destroying the universe every time, then that means she's a horrendous monster with a bodycount that would make Thanos look like a baby. When you up her powers to that scale, and you compare why she's doing this, it makes mutants kind of not sympathetic? Is the fate of one minority group on one planet in the entire universe worth ending the universe 9 times? The scale and scope of her powers kind of makes her a monster.

    And you're right about Proteus and Legion. The implications are not....pleasant. On top of that, she has foreknowledge of every mutant crisis but doesn't try to head any of them off.

  13. #253
    Incredible Member FIGHT's Avatar
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    Im not happy with the relaunch. Feels like filler. I rather just read a continuation of house/powers of x staring Moira, X, Mags and Apoaclypse...

    X-men has meh-ish art and both bad and good writing.

    Excalibur has good art but bad writing

    X-force has good art and writing, but I hate Quire.

    Gave up on the others early on so i have no comment about them.

  14. #254
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I've really wished we had gotten insight into how other nations view and treat mutants a long time. China and India make good examples. Modern China would potentially treat mutants in a way that makes old-school Genosha look like saints, and India could factor mutants into their caste system (that's been outlawed but is still present). Japan has a wild and weird pop culture, but is still super traditional and emphasizes not standing out, so mutant life there could be a tightrope walk.

    It really feels like the views of the US are projected onto the rest of the world. The only exceptions are when they need a clear 'bad guy' nation, like the Davos issue. Then the US is the crazy one in the room

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Canada in the Marvel universe have some kind of superhero registration act? I remember that coming up in discussions about Civil War
    Considering what China does to the Uighurs, I think youíre right. I imagine theyíd have a lot invested into research to neuter mutant powers and have detention camps designed to enslave mutants to the state. Itíd also be interesting to deep dive into how mutants would fit into an Indian caste system as Iím not sure all would automatically be at the bottom.

  15. #255
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    Not that Im so unhappy with the relaunch. I think its done well and Im anticipating more and more than I did previously. I was hoping that the relaunch would end up being a full reboot and streamlining. I favor quality over quantiity and have always felt that there are just too many redundant characters in the xbooks. The idea of Chimeras is fine and I hope it leads to the combining and phasing out of some while reintroducing others kind of like amalgamations. If it were me this is the angle I'd be going for. Ultimately Moira and Xavier are discovered to have extreme methods and the Chineras basically replace or become the new version of mutantkind

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