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  1. #136
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherIV View Post
    I can kind of agree on the whole thing about the Avengers. While they aren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs, the difficulty comes when humankind accepts them but hates mutants. I guess the thought that mutants will one day cause baseline humans to become extinct as opposed to not having to worry about that from those who accidentally got their powers is a valid one. Also if its just showing how stupid racism is as a whole then fine. However I think the idea that the Avengers are always too busy but then when they do stick their noses into mutant affairs they dont seem to be pro mutant is ok as long as its not constantly revisited
    To a certain extent it makes sense. Groups like the Avengers need to look out for the entire planet, not just mutankind. Sometimes what's best for mutants isn't what's best for the rest of the world. Avengers vs. X-men is almost a good example of this, except the writing is atrocious and everyone acts like children.

    I'd like to see some nuance, or at least more details, on why there's been such a split between other heroes and mutants. Something more than Cyclops thumbing his nose at other heroes for not helping more. How about, after AvX, heroes saw Scott escape from jail, and were just wary of him and the mutant groups he lead. At that point several mutant groups started doing increasingly sketchy things and working more and more with mutant villains. They were in a 'whatever it takes' kind of mindset, which made it harder to see them as pure heroes, and their conflicts got more grey.

    Then Inhumans vs X-Men happened, which was also badly written, but involved the X-men going on the offense without bothering to talk or explain the problem to other groups. We saw in other stories that most heroes saw it as 'escaped convict Scott Summers went off the deep end and tried to screw over the Inhumans', leading to those stupid 'mutant Hitler' lines. That debacle ended with Emma Frost obliterating two Inhuman cities and siccing the Sentinals on the Inhumans.

    X-men Gold and Blue came next, and while in Gold they tried to integrate more with regular humans with the school in central park, there were problems. In Secret Empire, Emma led the mutants into siding with Hydra, and gave some token help to the resistance while actively attacking the Secret Warriors. In the end, she gave away a Cosmic Cube shard to the Nazis, and only joined the final fight when things were falling apart. The mutants we saw were mostly OK with what she had done, despite her being a war criminal and mass murderer. After that some mutants like Kate played lip service to her being a criminal, while Iceman was totally OK with paling around with her. In Blue, Emma also helped bomb multiple cities around the world to forcibly make more mutants, and again only stopped when it was clear she was going to lose. Again, she suffered no consequences, and she was in fact shielded by the X-men for vague "we will need her later" reasons.

    Then came the Poison event, where the Blue team helped draw the Poisons to Earth. They were targeting Earth anyway, but the X-men exacerbated it by letting Jean get absorbed by them. Following that was Dissassembled and Age of X-man, which were massive disasters caused by mutant infighting and confusion. At no point did the X-men ask for help. Instead, most of them were presumed dead at the hands of X-man. Right after that, convicted murderer Cyclops turns up alive and well, leads a small team all over picking fights with some villains and working for others. Eventually, Emma Frost mind controls the entire world into forgetting and ignoring mutants entirely, and mind controls the Avengers specifically to distribute a cure for a mutant vaccine. The remaining X-men are mostly OK with this, until the people from Age of X-man come back. Immediately afterwards, Krakoa becomes a thing out of nowhere.

    If I mischaracterized or misremembered or left something out of all that, please feel free to correct me. My point in all that is that you can extrapolate from all of that stuff that the rest of the superhero community could see all of that and decide to keep the X-men at arms length. Buddying up to Emma Frost alone would cause the Avengers to react with horror. This hasn't been stated in text, but I've been assuming its playing a part. I also vaguely remember several character telling other heroes "mutants handle mutant problems" but I can't remember that happening specifically and might be wrong.

  2. #137
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I've actually been reading Fearless. Its underrated and very, very good. I'm confused on when it takes place, since Storm is acting really different compared to HoXPoXDoX
    I'm not necessarily sure when it is other than its after red as she is wearing her red outfit. but there were definitely some off things about her voice but I still very much enjoyed the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Fearless is a anthology, out of continuity
    it's not out of continuity where did you get that? lol
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  3. #138
    BANNED PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Kate renamed the school ‘Xavier Institute for Mutant Education and Outreach’ when ResurreXion started up. Also Storm has on her outfit from X-Men Red.
    Huh, I must have missed that. If that was during Gold, that's the reason.

  4. #139
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    On a similar note, I'd like to see them interacting with other heroes. Wolverine seems to be the only one that can actually talk to other people without it devolving into "why haven't you done more for mutants?!" BS. Sorry, Scott, we were too busy dealing with the Final Host, the Nazi invasion, all that Asgardian and Symbiote nonsense to help you out with your specific problems.

    Sorry to get salty.
    I would like to preface the following with the mention that I am a fan of the relaunch so I don't have much of an axe to grind here, however I do agree that I would like to see more interaction outside of Krakoa sooner rather than later. I am dying to know what the Avengers think about this.

    Side note, despite the above I don't think it is really fair to say what I emboldened. The Avengers have a track record of not helping the mutants while the mutants often times help the Avengers. The X-Men were there for Secret Empire, War of the realms and other Avengers events. Rarely is the opposite true.
    You brought back Wolverine

    The CBR Community Standards a.k.a how to get along.

  5. #140
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine12 View Post
    I would like to preface the following with the mention that I am a fan of the relaunch so I don't have much of an axe to grind here, however I do agree that I would like to see more interaction outside of Krakoa sooner rather than later. I am dying to know what the Avengers think about this.

    Side note, despite the above I don't think it is really fair to say what I emboldened. The Avengers have a track record of not helping the mutants while the mutants often times help the Avengers. The X-Men were there for Secret Empire, War of the realms and other Avengers events. Rarely is the opposite true.
    The Avengers probably aren't thrilled, because half of them know not to trust Xavier. I'm curious about the other thing though. In the last few big X events, have the Avengers or other hero groups even been mentioned? Or was there some 'mutant handle mutant problems' thing going on? I know the real reason they haven't had much interaction is because of the rights issues, but has there ever been an in story reason given?

    The last time everyone worked together for a mutant-related reason I believe was Return of Wolverine.
    Last edited by pkingdom; 11-30-2019 at 12:07 AM.

  6. #141
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    The Avengers probably aren't thrilled, because half of them know not to trust Xavier. .
    Do they? Reasons? Most have known Xavier for Decades.... Capt marvel was eFFin'Binary!+
    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    The last time everyone worked together for a mutant-related reason I believe was Return of Wolverine.
    ...Liiiiiiiike a year ago?
    GrindrStone(D)

  7. #142
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    Well, soon enough we'll have:




    … which could/should be interesting, so let's see what happens there.

  8. #143
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Its images like that one with Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse that confuse the hell out of me. That is clearly a villain-coded picture, right? All three in shadow and ominous lighting, and the only eyes you can see are Apocalypses' evil-looking red eyes. So are the X-men going to be the bad guys or what?

    Some more moral clarity would really be appreciated.

    Side note: I'm glad the Champions are still sticking around after Jim Zub nearly ruined them.

  9. #144
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    It’s drawn as foreboding and “dangerous.” The X-Men are being drawn right alongside everyone else on the cover.

  10. #145
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    It’s drawn as foreboding and “dangerous.” The X-Men are being drawn right alongside everyone else on the cover.
    Good point on the actual cover. The INCOMING! book is actually pretty expensive, so when it comes out people will dish on the details on here.

    To get back on topic, now that we've got a few issues in, is there anything in particular that isn't working well, or that you would like to tweak?

  11. #146
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    Its images like that one with Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse that confuse the hell out of me. That is clearly a villain-coded picture, right? All three in shadow and ominous lighting, and the only eyes you can see are Apocalypses' evil-looking red eyes. So are the X-men going to be the bad guys or what?

    Some more moral clarity would really be appreciated.

    Side note: I'm glad the Champions are still sticking around after Jim Zub nearly ruined them.
    ^ This is why I have very little interest in that upcoming event... to me, making all mutants "even villains" come together and let us see different sides of them is one of the most engaging and worthwhile aspects to Dawn of X. This event is going to seemingly play up on the old tropes all over again, so yeah thumbs down for me.
    Forget the old ways - Krakoa is god.

    OBEY

  12. #147
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    1. Excalibur should’ve had more MarvelUK influences.
    2. New Mutants should’ve been the flagship title, featuring the Quiet Council and their captains.
    3. Fallen Angels should’ve been a Kwannon solo mini guest starring Wolverine.
    4. X-Force should’ve been multi-squad Stormwatch procedural
    5. X-Men should’ve been the Giant-Size concept
    6. Marauders shouldn’t be titled that

  13. #148
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    ^ This is why I have very little interest in that upcoming event... to me, making all mutants "even villains" come together and let us see different sides of them is one of the most engaging and worthwhile aspects to Dawn of X. This event is going to seemingly play up on the old tropes all over again, so yeah thumbs down for me.
    Well, its more of a preview of the big stories for 2020, so we don't know for certain. But if its going to pit the X-men against the rest of the Marvel U, I'm siding the other heroes. Krakoa is super unsettling, and I can't even begin to root for them when they have guys like Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister calling the shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    1. Excalibur should’ve had more MarvelUK influences.
    2. New Mutants should’ve been the flagship title, featuring the Quiet Council and their captains.
    3. Fallen Angels should’ve been a Kwannon solo mini guest starring Wolverine.
    4. X-Force should’ve been multi-squad Stormwatch procedural
    5. X-Men should’ve been the Giant-Size concept
    6. Marauders shouldn’t be titled that
    Agreed on 3. For New Mutants, I wish they had split the plot into a Starjammers series focused on Shi'ar politics and New Mutant shenanigans. It wants to do both and the Mutants almost feel superfluous at points.

    On 5, they've had problems over-emphasizing the villains so far, so seeing Magneto and Emma get top billing so far irks me.

    6: What would you rather it be titled? I'm guessing Hellfire, since that's what it kinda is so far.

  14. #149
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    1. Excalibur should’ve had more MarvelUK influences.
    2. New Mutants should’ve been the flagship title, featuring the Quiet Council and their captains.
    3. Fallen Angels should’ve been a Kwannon solo mini guest starring Wolverine.
    4. X-Force should’ve been multi-squad Stormwatch procedural
    5. X-Men should’ve been the Giant-Size concept
    6. Marauders shouldn’t be titled that
    1 yes, we should get more Marvel UK.
    3. Yes, the book is clearly a kwannon solo
    5. X-men is doing one shots previewing future stories. not sure about this format to start the series.

  15. #150
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    1. I do not like X-Men Blue Take Two. I think the manner in which Betsy became Cap Brit is cliche and quite boring. I think their adventures thus far have been awkward and forced. The Braddocks have a wide universe without the insertion of En Sabah Merlin.

    2. Stan Lee wanted to call X-Men “Mutants” way back in the 1960s. This new Krakoan paradigm is a new take in their original plight. They, led by the Quiet Council, are NEW mutantkind. That all said, I hate that the New Mutant original roster is never allowed to transition up and out if their original clique. It’s the clique that bothers me most.

    3. I actually like the tone and style of Kwannon’s book, I just think it’s a disservice pairing her with Laura and WiFi. They should’ve gone all in with this as her re-introduction as Psylocke, and paired her with the X-Men’s heaviest heavies: Wolverine and Cyclops. Compare and contrast with who Betsy was in her body and who she COULD be as an X-Man.

    4. I think X-Force is the future of the brand, rather than its kill squad. Set up international x-forces around the world, led by the new mutant professional superheros. Act like the goddamn justice league and teach the ANAD and O5 how it’s done.

    5. I like the idea of one and done single stories of small relationships and conflicts, the way Giant Size seems to be. I wish X-Men went bigger and wider, with single stories of the Cassidy family, Nightcrawler, Mystique obviously, Avalanche opening a bar on Krakoa, etc.

    6. Marauder means murderer to mutants. It was always a bad idea. I’d have preferred “Hellions”, true. I’d have preferred each Monarch to establish their own Court, as Kate seems to have. Imagine a Black Court smuggle team, a White Court celebrity team, and a Red Court warzone intervention team.

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