My idea for how to bring mutants to the MCU

[Revolutionary_Jack]

In short, they should use the ultimate universe origin of mutants being engineered rather than naturally occurring, but make the whole point of the testing to active a pre existing, long dormant genetic connection to the deviants.

That would be an appallingly and stunningly bad choice to make. Mutants being a natural product of the same evolutionary process that led to homo sapiens is a fundamental, immovable, part of the entire mythos. And need I remind everyone that Ultimate X-Men was a complete failure, the least influential, least-liked, and least successful of the Ultimate Marvel imprint. This particular issue failed in the comics, was a part of a failed iteration of the characters, so there's no reason to use this.

HoX/PoX for instance is a much bigger success than UXM and it makes mutants being a product of the natural environment a fundamental, crucial given of the entire thing.

This is the definition of a subtractive approach...

This solves a number of issues.

By scorched-earth you mean. It limits the entire mythos and the kinds of stories people can do and flexibility going forward.

Why weren't there mutants before now?

Where was Captain Marvel when the Chitauri came a'calling, why didn't Fury use his beeper then? The MCU mainlined BS comics retcons, so there's no need to overthink this.

The X-Men also have telepaths, illusionists, and reality-warpers. Besides there are a number of cartoons, like X-Men Evolution which had the mutants in secret for decades until their public masking. So there's a range of options, range of better ideas, than simply doing something drastic as this.

I guarantee you that the last thing Feige and others worry about is continuity and how does this explain before. They go with the story they want and then come up with ways to present and insert the stories into continuity, and so on.

Currently too associated by their FOX film portrayals.

Which were commercially successful for the most part. Critically successful in the case of X1, X2, First Class, DOFP, and Logan.

So the fact is people would want the most notable characters of that franchise in the MCU version.

Charles and Erik can literally be the people who emerge from an actual modern day civil rights movement to create two divergent social movements in response: one based in activism, one based in militancy. They can then be what they were originally envisioned to be; MCU analogous figures to MLK and Malcolm X.

This is more or less what the Fox Movies did and it's arguably become too cliche (and kinda dated since Malcolm X wasn't as extreme nor Dr. King so moderate). Something like HoX/PoX represents a next step approach to the mutant story compared to this.

Again, the best way going forward is simply...Moira X.

[GodfatherIV]

My half an idea is to do an adaptation of House of M.
Mutants have existed in the historical sense in the MCU but we've never seen them. In an early manifestation of her powers Wanda warped reality and mutants were wiped from peoples memory and basically from existence. From then on they've gone into hiding with Xavier keeping mutants hidden from the known world. I like the Illuminati idea that was mentioned earlier too and maybe things come to head when Wanda starts to warp reality again and tge mutants want her dead or maybe Namor attacks Wakanda and the mutants are now brought to the forefront

[Revolutionary_Jack]

My half an idea is to do an adaptation of House of M.

That seems to be happening in WandaVision anyway, mixed with Tom King's VISION

Mutants have existed in the historical sense in the MCU but we've never seen them. In an early manifestation of her powers Wanda warped reality and mutants were wiped from peoples memory and basically from existence.

I think Marvel are committed to Wanda not being a mutant both in comics, movies and so on. Even the X-Men are moving past her. So they might not want to emphasize it.

Fundamentally Wanda and Vision are tied to the Avengers in the MCU, making her a mutant now would just confuse audiences. Remember Scarlet Witch wasn't introduced in the Fox X-Men movies. Quicksilver was but his MCU counterpart is dead so maybe that doesn't matter much.

Movie audiences are way bigger than comics audiences. For them Wanda isn't a mutant, she isn't a mutant in the comics these days. So that door is closed.

[phantombassist]

Mutants being a natural product of the same evolutionary process that led to homo sapiens is a fundamental, immovable, part of the entire mythos.

My scenario doesn't preclude this from being true. It could very easily be established that mutants would be an eventual evolutionary inevitability; the proposed experiments could just have prematurely jump started their proliferation.

HoX/PoX for instance is a much bigger success than UXM and it makes mutants being a product of the natural environment a fundamental, crucial given of the entire thing.

I completely agree that HOX/POX is a much bigger success than UXM. I think this approach would basically use very specific pieces of the UXM origin as a means to get the MCU Mutants to a place where they can quickly and dove tail into more traditional stories and takes on the characters. More or less a "Use what works, Lose what doesn't" approach.

By scorched-earth you mean. It limits the entire mythos and the kinds of stories people can do and flexibility going forward.

I'm not sure that it necessarily has to, given the reasons above.

Where was Captain Marvel when the Chitauri came a'calling, why didn't Fury use his beeper then? The MCU mainlined BS comics retcons, so there's no need to overthink this.

The X-Men also have telepaths, illusionists, and reality-warpers. Besides there are a number of cartoons, like X-Men Evolution which had the mutants in secret for decades until their public masking. So there's a range of options, range of better ideas, than simply doing something drastic as this.

I guarantee you that the last thing Feige and others worry about is continuity and how does this explain before. They go with the story they want and then come up with ways to present and insert the stories into continuity, and so on.

Oh your totally right about the continuity; I just find overthinking it half the fun I'm under no illusions that Marvel or Feige care about anything beyond surface level continuity nods.

Which were commercially successful for the most part. Critically successful in the case of X1, X2, First Class, DOFP, and Logan.

So the fact is people would want the most notable characters of that franchise in the MCU version.

They were absolutely successful (at least until Apocalypse), but I strongly suspect Marvel will want to have their own interpretation of the franchise. Which means holding onto the fans made by the previous films, but not emulating what came before. It just seems using the "pre established" characters very sparingly (at least initially) would allow them to play to their base while still freeing them up creatively to use newer characters and stories.

This is more or less what the Fox Movies did and it's arguably become too cliche (and kinda dated since Malcolm X wasn't as extreme nor Dr. King so moderate). Something like HoX/PoX represents a next step approach to the mutant story compared to this.

I agree that the civil rights analogy as it was initially envisioned has not aged as well as some would like. I do think that the social movements regarding mutants rights need to happen for anything like HOX/POX to believably occur. Jumping right to the nation state point (or even getting there in short order) will make the mutants more like the Inhumans or Eternals. I just don't think Marvel would prioritize a take on mutants that makes them less of a perceived social collective within society and more of an external, hidden and separate society. They could, I just don't think they want to use the franchise for that take when they have other, better fitting options like the ones I said earlier.

[GodfatherIV]

That seems to be happening in WandaVision anyway, mixed with Tom King's VISION



I think Marvel are committed to Wanda not being a mutant both in comics, movies and so on. Even the X-Men are moving past her. So they might not want to emphasize it.

Fundamentally Wanda and Vision are tied to the Avengers in the MCU, making her a mutant now would just confuse audiences. Remember Scarlet Witch wasn't introduced in the Fox X-Men movies. Quicksilver was but his MCU counterpart is dead so maybe that doesn't matter much.

Movie audiences are way bigger than comics audiences. For them Wanda isn't a mutant, she isn't a mutant in the comics these days. So that door is closed.

Yeah I wasnt talking about making Wanda a mutant in this case. She was always experimented on so then in an early manifestation of her powers she warped things

[jwatson]

They could just have Krakoa existing as a moving island hidden by a fog that blocks all technological scanning and Xavier uses Cerebro to make sure anyone who has wandered close to the island doesn't remember it. Quick and easy.

[jwatson]

My scenario doesn't preclude this from being true. It could very easily be established that mutants would be an eventual evolutionary inevitability; the proposed experiments could just have prematurely jump started their proliferation.



I completely agree that HOX/POX is a much bigger success than UXM. I think this approach would basically use very specific pieces of the UXM origin as a means to get the MCU Mutants to a place where they can quickly and dove tail into more traditional stories and takes on the characters. More or less a "Use what works, Lose what doesn't" approach.




I'm not sure that it necessarily has to, given the reasons above.




Oh your totally right about the continuity; I just find overthinking it half the fun I'm under no illusions that Marvel or Feige care about anything beyond surface level continuity nods.





They were absolutely successful (at least until Apocalypse), but I strongly suspect Marvel will want to have their own interpretation of the franchise. Which means holding onto the fans made by the previous films, but not emulating what came before. It just seems using the "pre established" characters very sparingly (at least initially) would allow them to play to their base while still freeing them up creatively to use newer characters and stories.




I agree that the civil rights analogy as it was initially envisioned has not aged as well as some would like. I do think that the social movements regarding mutants rights need to happen for anything like HOX/POX to believably occur. Jumping right to the nation state point (or even getting there in short order) will make the mutants more like the Inhumans or Eternals. I just don't think Marvel would prioritize a take on mutants that makes them less of a perceived social collective within society and more of an external, hidden and separate society. They could, I just don't think they want to use the franchise for that take when they have other, better fitting options like the ones I said earlier.

In america it has aged well. We just recently had someone say something dumb about confederate flags. Nikki haley who should know better.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

My scenario doesn't preclude this from being true. It could very easily be established that mutants would be an eventual evolutionary inevitability; the proposed experiments could just have prematurely jump started their proliferation.

See, the X-Men have a hard enough concept to explain to start with, i.e. you need to know basics of human evolution (which in America is banned in some states) and get that the X-Men come after humans and are the next step and the future.

But to the extent that it requires suspension of disbelief, it's even more so when you explain that some random experiment jump started what would have happened anyway. It creates unnecessary complication.

Oh your totally right about the continuity; I just find overthinking it half the fun I'm under no illusions that Marvel or Feige care about anything beyond surface level continuity nods.

Cool.

[Agent Z]

That would be an appallingly and stunningly bad choice to make. Mutants being a natural product of the same evolutionary process that led to homo sapiens is a fundamental, immovable, part of the entire mythos.

That ship sailed when the 616 universe revealed that the mutant gene was introduced into humanity by the Celestials. Mutants aren't any more natural than super soldiers and at least the Ultimate origin has human involved instead of aliens.

And need I remind everyone that Ultimate X-Men was a complete failure, the least influential, least-liked, and least successful of the Ultimate Marvel imprint.

That origin was revealed in Ultimatum not Ultimate X-Men. And the former was what was considered a failure not Ultimate X-men.

[GodfatherIV]

The gems or stones have been in the MCU for a very long time now. So maybe it could be plausible that the stones in an earlier iteration would have unlocked abilities in some people making them mutants.

The super soldier idea and unlocking a certain part of the genome in experimentation is also plausible. Some hate it but its not beyond the realm of possibility that unlocking some ability could jumpstart evolution. Or that humans could evolve based on certain factors introduced. Things like some type of experiment or even the advent of the nuclear age

[Astroman]

Yeah, I'm thinking that the Eternals movie will be where they give either overt or covert implications as to the origin of Mutants.

[GodfatherIV]

Still cant believe they are doing that movie. I guess after the success of Guardians of the Galaxy, Marvel is just so confident that they can put out anything and it will sell

[CRaymond]

The Neil Gaiman trade is supposedly a good story, and Marvel sees it as an opportunity to build defunct brands and sell more merch to under-represented identities. I mean, how many middle eastern superheroes can you name?

As for X-Men, I kind of prefer the x-gene to a mysterious plot device, and the heroics are just how it’s dealt with. If it were up to me, MCU Charlie would be mind wiping entire cities for years. Have the X-Men be an actual super-secret group of secret supers. I don’t need an explanation. Powers are random, and away we go!

[jwatson]

Still cant believe they are doing that movie. I guess after the success of Guardians of the Galaxy, Marvel is just so confident that they can put out anything and it will sell

I feel they are filling the place of the inhumans with the watching the avengers stuff. Once inhumans was removed from phase 4 they prob filled their spot with eternals

[Londo Bellian]

The Neil Gaiman trade is supposedly a good story,

Probably gave that "Eternals" trade a dash of magic from his writing of you-know-what.