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  1. #1
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    Default Cassies new Origin and Future

    Hello,

    I must say I really HATE the new Origin of Cassie.
    I think the old Pre-Flashpoint Origin was PERFECT, because Cassie as daughter of Zeus could probably in future have had the chance to become more powerful than Diana.
    The new Version instead with Diana as Daughter of Zeus instead takes this possibility away.

    It makes Cassie much less interesting for me, because it kinds of establish Diana as Nr.1 in her family, if the amulet doesnt empower her incredibly.


    I hope that Cassie will also be aged up, I really LOVED the DC Rebirth Titans of Tomorrow Cassie Look.
    She looks AWESOME as Amazon.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean they changed Donna's origin and Diana is Zeus's kid. So they don't care for Cassie now.

  3. #3
    Spectacular Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Hello,

    I must say I really HATE the new Origin of Cassie.
    I think the old Pre-Flashpoint Origin was PERFECT, because Cassie as daughter of Zeus could probably in future have had the chance to become more powerful than Diana.
    The new Version instead with Diana as Daughter of Zeus instead takes this possibility away.

    It makes Cassie much less interesting for me, because it kinds of establish Diana as Nr.1 in her family, if the amulet doesnt empower her incredibly.


    I hope that Cassie will also be aged up, I really LOVED the DC Rebirth Titans of Tomorrow Cassie Look.
    She looks AWESOME as Amazon.
    Why would anyone want Cassie to surpass Diana in power?

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natamaxxx View Post
    Why would anyone want Cassie to surpass Diana in power?
    If they are fans of legacy they might want that.

    Can't say I'm terribly interested in the idea myself. Why can't Diana be #1 in her own damn franchise?

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    If they are fans of legacy they might want that.

    Can't say I'm terribly interested in the idea myself. Why can't Diana be #1 in her own damn franchise?
    I strongly dislike the idea that the proteges are forced to always remain second fiddle to their mentors. I loathe the idea that they must remain "second-class" heroes forever. I don't want them all to surpass them in power, but I'm perfectly fine with several doing so. I liked Donna having the same power as Diana had, which was the same power as every other Amazon just like Clark having the same power as every other Kryptonian (so yeah, Kara's right there with him on power). I most definitely do not want Diana "#1" in terms of power - I liked that she was the same as every other Amazon and her place as champion came from skill, training, hard work, etc. as it was originally.

    However, I did not like Cassie's as Zeus's child. Don't like it for Diana, either. I don't want her a demigod (the gods really bore me). Even the story that established it really didn't make sense to me. It's also a far less compelling story that that of a normal human who wanted to be hero, who worked at it with what she had (the artifacts) and then pursued it by asking Zeus for it. It wasn't inherited, but something she chose. Making Zeus her father diminishes that to me. Also makes her paternal heritage more important that the parent that raised her, the one there day in and day out. Don't care for that either. I like her first origin, when she was just human who was granted powers equal to the Amazons (as was Donna).

    Mind you, I'm something of a minority, as I like most of the heavy hitters less powerful than their most powerful. I think when only world-threatening events can threaten the hero, there's less ability for "small" stories, for fighting one villain, without mass destruction or death and there still being a real threat. I have commented on this further in other threads in regards to WW, Superman, Green Lanterns, various Speedsters, Cyborg, Raven, and even Batman.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 11-24-2019 at 05:19 PM.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I strongly dislike the idea that the proteges are forced to always remain second fiddle to their mentors. I loathe the idea that they must remain "second-class" heroes forever. I don't want them all to surpass them in power, but I'm perfectly fine with several doing so. I liked Donna having the same power as Diana had, which was the same power as every other Amazon just like Clark having the same power as every other Kryptonian (so yeah, Kara's right there with him on power). I most definitely do not want Diana "#1" in terms of power - I liked that she was the same as every other Amazon and her place as champion came from skill, training, hard work, etc. as it was originally.

    However, I did not like Cassie's as Zeus's child. Don't like it for Diana, either. I don't want her a demigod (the gods really bore me). Even the story that established it really didn't make sense to me. It's also a far less compelling story that that of a normal human who wanted to be hero, who worked at it with what she had (the artifacts) and then pursued it by asking Zeus for it. It wasn't inherited, but something she chose. Making Zeus her father diminishes that to me. Also makes her paternal heritage more important that the parent that raised her, the one there day in and day out. Don't care for that either.
    Diana was still the #1 Amazon in terms of power even if things were closer with the others in pre-COIE continuity. Occasionally there would be hints that Hippolyta might be stronger or a new character like Nubia who was described as stronger, but as a rule the franchise runs on Diana being the biggest fish in the pond. That's far from the only point of Wonder Woman, but it's one of the big ones. She's among the best of the best. Same with Clark and the other Kryptonians, he's always ahead by at least a hair. Since he's the protagonist and literally nothing else would exist without him. Usually there isn't a reason to suggest them being surpassed by a supporting character unless there is a desire to prop up said character in a quick way.

    I do agree I specifically do not like Donna and her generation being treated as second fiddles, but I don't think there is a need to have them surpass their mentors as there is for them to find their own niche and be treated as competent peers. Donna, in addition to her wealth of other problems, needs something like that.

    Cassie I have nothing by apathy towards, so...

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Wait wasn’t Cassie’s first origin is she had the scandals to fly and wasn’t Zeus’s kid?

  8. #8
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Diana was still the #1 Amazon in terms of power even if things were closer with the others in pre-COIE continuity. Occasionally there would be hints that Hippolyta might be stronger or a new character like Nubia who was described as stronger, but as a rule the franchise runs on Diana being the biggest fish in the pond. That's far from the only point of Wonder Woman, but it's one of the big ones. She's among the best of the best. Same with Clark and the other Kryptonians, he's always ahead by at least a hair. Since he's the protagonist and literally nothing else would exist without him. Usually there isn't a reason to suggest them being surpassed by a supporting character unless there is a desire to prop up said character in a quick way.
    We just have different perceptions there. They win because they are the title characters, sure. But Clark is not more powerful than other Kryptonians, Diana was not more powerful than other Amazons. I mean in terms of raw power in scientific sense. Clark's heat vision isn't any hotter than Zod's. They win for being faster or smarter sometimes, yes, but they are among their peers, not among their lessers, when with other Amazons/Kryptonians. Not like more recently when Diana has oodles of powers the others don't have (or even earlier with her blessings they don't have). I want Donna and Cassie to be, as they originally were, on the same playing field not forcibly kept on a lower tier in the sense they they are measurably less. Like, when Wally got his powers - he kept up with Barry, step for step. He wasn't made lesser. Later, stories would make Barry lesser, and then when he was brought back make Wally lesser. Both of those are mistakes to me. To me, you should never know which one would win, and they should both shine brightly. That is what I like.

    I feel similarly towards Diana and Donna. Earlier Diana would win - she was the best among the Amazons, but Donna grows and learns, too. Diana might still win more often, but not every time. Cassie starts very raw and would take years before she could compete with them. But that's about skill, not power. And her skills should keep growing. In the old days, side kicks got to save mentors - not all the time, but quite often. And I feel like that we don't see as much anymore. The mentors got made bigger than life, never needing rescuing (well, Batman, anyway - not so much with Diana, who didn't get accomplish do anything recently, but that's a separate complaint). And the sidekicks, who did get grow up and be amazing once up on a time, got dragged back into their mentor's shadows and made less competent. Well, Dick and Wally, anyway. Donna faced other issues, given her continuity circumstances, and Ollie got diminished greatly for a while in post-COIE, so Roy didn't suffer then. Roy, on the other hand, got reduced in competence/maturity, too, but was later, when New 52 came around.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 11-24-2019 at 05:45 PM.

  9. #9
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    We just have different perceptions there. They win because they are the title characters, sure. But Clark is not more powerful than other Kryptonians, Diana was not more powerful than other Amazons. I mean in terms of raw power in scientific sense.
    Except...she is.

    She is a god-gifted Amazon or a demi-god/god Amazon or an Amazon who excels at Amazon training (original origin) such that, with the exception of newer iterations where she's a demi-god/god, she beat all the other Amazons in a multi-event contest to prove that she is faster and stronger than all the rest.

    Clark is considered more powerful in several iterations because he's spent the longest time under the yellow sun soaking up solar radiation and having the longest amount of time of any Kryptonian learning how to use those powers.

    It's hard to tell where Cassie and Donna stand in relation to Diana because of their unique/changing origins, but Diana has been shown to be superior to other Amazons as a general rule of thumb.

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    In Marston. She was considered strong as a child, she lifted up a tree. Mala is equal to her. She almost won

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Wait wasnít Cassieís first origin is she had the scandals to fly and wasnít Zeusís kid?
    NO....

    As far as I remind she was ALWAYS ZEUS DAUGHTER, BUT!! Helena Sandsmark didnt want that Cassie becomes a Super-Hero so she forbids Zeus and Diana to tell Cassie that she is Zeus daughter, but Cassie takes Dianas stuff....

    So she was ALWAYS Zeus daughter, but didnt know and so she:
    1. uses the sandals etc. which give her powers
    2. she uses Zeus Energy
    3. she uses Ares Energy
    4. she finally learns how to step in her OWN Powers.

    She was ALWAYS Zeus daughter, but DIDNT KNOW it, because Helena forbid it to Zeus and Diana to tell her this.
    This is also the reason why ARTEMIS and NOT! Diana trains her...

    Helena forbids to Diana to train her, so she lets ARTEMIS train Cassie, because Diana told Helena that she (Diana) wouldnt train her.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post

    Clark is considered more powerful in several iterations because he's spent the longest time under the yellow sun soaking up solar radiation and having the longest amount of time of any Kryptonian learning how to use those powers.
    Not really true...

    Its kind of general rule, BUT Zod for example becomes FAST REALLY POWERFUL.

    I mean Clark had YEARS to absorb sunlight, while Zod has generally short times, but is equal/superior to Clark and he only spend days or so under yellow sun.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natamaxxx View Post
    Why would anyone want Cassie to surpass Diana in power?
    I personally prefer Cassie to Diana.
    The old origin was more interesting, because it gave Cassie the possibility to become stronger, because she was Zeus daughter, while Diana was only an Amazon.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Diana was still the #1 Amazon in terms of power even if things were closer with the others in pre-COIE continuity. Occasionally there would be hints that Hippolyta might be stronger or a new character like Nubia who was described as stronger, but as a rule the franchise runs on Diana being the biggest fish in the pond. That's far from the only point of Wonder Woman, but it's one of the big ones. She's among the best of the best. Same with Clark and the other Kryptonians, he's always ahead by at least a hair. Since he's the protagonist and literally nothing else would exist without him. Usually there isn't a reason to suggest them being surpassed by a supporting character unless there is a desire to prop up said character in a quick way.

    I do agree I specifically do not like Donna and her generation being treated as second fiddles, but I don't think there is a need to have them surpass their mentors as there is for them to find their own niche and be treated as competent peers. Donna, in addition to her wealth of other problems, needs something like that.

    Cassie I have nothing by apathy towards, so...
    Diana was Nr. 1, because Cassie learned how to step in her own powers very late.
    She was firstly empowered by the items,then by Zeus,then by Ares.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Except...she is.

    She is a god-gifted Amazon or a demi-god/god Amazon or an Amazon who excels at Amazon training (original origin) such that, with the exception of newer iterations where she's a demi-god/god, she beat all the other Amazons in a multi-event contest to prove that she is faster and stronger than all the rest.

    Clark is considered more powerful in several iterations because he's spent the longest time under the yellow sun soaking up solar radiation and having the longest amount of time of any Kryptonian learning how to use those powers.

    It's hard to tell where Cassie and Donna stand in relation to Diana because of their unique/changing origins, but Diana has been shown to be superior to other Amazons as a general rule of thumb.
    Yep. And it does boil down to them being the protagonists, which I know may not be a satisfying reason for some, but it's pretty cut and dry. When you are reading a comic with "Superman" and "Wonder Woman" as the title, you are signing on to read the most powerful man and woman respectively in their adventures, even if their adventures challenge them.

    Bringing the possibility of someone surpassing them into the equation, especially when we know time is never going to advance, seems pretty pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I personally prefer Cassie to Diana.
    The old origin was more interesting, because it gave Cassie the possibility to become stronger, because she was Zeus daughter, while Diana was only an Amazon.
    Diana was never just an Amazon. Her divine gifts make her close to Superman in power, that is not a level the average Amazon is capable of achieving in post-COIE canon.


    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Diana was Nr. 1, because Cassie learned how to step in her own powers very late.
    She was firstly empowered by the items,then by Zeus,then by Ares.
    Diana is #1 because it's her franchise. Cassie will never top her because Wonder Woman is never permanently going away, regardless of this upcoming 5G failure.

    It's ok to like Cassie or any other supporting character more, but in terms of power level discussions it's kind of irrelevant because she's just a spin off character

  15. #15
    Incredible Member MarquisAsh's Avatar
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    Cassie apparently appearing in action comics.
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